Chancel Repair Liability

supermumno1

We just paid £60 for one of these policies, mainly for a quiet life, and to keep the wheels of the selling process well greased. I plan to write a letter to the local paper inviting the archbishop to reassure the local population (which includes a large number of non-Christians) he will never impose this iniquitous tax, but will probably never bother in the end. I hope someone somewhere stand up to this before long.

You should be careful in approaching the church - in doing so you could invalidate the policy you have paid out for.



This is a very real liability that exists, though the chances of a claim may well still be small. The insurers seem to be onto a good thing I agree, but if you didn't have a policy in place and a claim was made against you what then? No-one would insure for a then proven liability and no-one would wish to purchase your property and take on the potentially unlimited liability that comes with it. We have looked into this in depth ourselves (there is another thread I started a week or two ago somewhere) and it is not just a scam to line the pockets of insurance companies. Not all properties come back as possibly liable as the last poster said. Those that do have 3 options - ignore the findings at your own risk, get insurance and continue with a quiet life or do a full search to be sure of the situation - if negative all well and good, if positive then there are some very serious issues including the possibility of not then being able to insure, and needing to get the interest registered with the Land Registry for all to see, church included.

Buzz_Rockport

there seems to be a definitive reply on the subject at http://www.chancel.org.uk/ allthough it doesn't make a judgement as to who should pay it!

Chancel Repair Liability dates back to medieval times, when Churches (or more specifically their Chancel's were maintained by wealthy land owners, since medieval times what used to be large estates of land have now been broken down in to many thousands of privately owned properties, yet the potential for Chancel Repair Liabilities has been passed down to successive owners of the land or buildings.
Thankfully these archaic laws are changing, and once October 2013 has passed, unless the Church has expressed a specific interest in your property (by noting their interest with the inland revenue) you, or your property will no longer be at risk, on the flip side however this does of course mean that there is an increased risk of Churches investigating potential liabilties for properties within their parishes. Somehow however i get the feeling that Churches are unlikely to take action against large estates of properties, preferring (perhaps) instead to target 'easier' prey in lesser numbers, its the basic rule of hunting....



What is Chancel Land?
What are Chancel Repairs?
What are Chancel Repair liabilities?
Chancel land accounts for approximately 40% of all land in England and Wales.
Chancel land and chancel repair liabilities can trace their roots back to medieval times, when every parish had its own priest or rector. The rector by the nature of his status, had a number of rights, including certain taxes or income from the land of the parish. The cost of repairs to the church was split between the rector and the parishioners, with the parishioners traditionally being responsible for the western end of a church (the area where they sat) and the rector was responsible for repairs to the chancel (The eastern end of a Church).
The rector being able to pay for repairs from the income of his 'Glebe' land and tithes.
Since these times, although the land may have been broken into many thousands in some cases of small parcels, the liabilty for these repairs has continued to exist and has on occassion be enforce or claimed by the Church.
Whilst the Chancel repair liabilities are normally confined to rural communities, homeowners, purchasers and their conveyances (or solicitors) should be wary of ancient settlements that have grow considerably in size, Fulham and Warwick being examples.


Thankfully, the Government have intervened and a Transitional Provisions Order was made which came into effect on the 13th October 2003. This order effectively means that ALL chancel repair obligations will cease on the 13th October 2013 unless a the chancel of any Church has noted their interest in any particular property or land with the land registry before this date.
Unfortunately this legislation means that the likely hood of a claim and liability being noted with the inland revenue as Churches will look to either protect their interests or 'cash' in now on any liabilities.

waterbaby30

We are in the process of buying a house in a Glebe Way. Our conveyancer hasn't mentioned chancel liability but a friend has. If we request our conveyancer to do a chancel search is it a likely assumption that we will have more than a potential liability becuase of the name of the street?

lindos90

My solicitor has just gone and got one of these without me even asking for it, or him advising whats its for and why I would need it, £115!

Im quite miffed, as the vendor bought the property themselves about 2 years ago, they may very well have a policy that is transferable judging by some of the posts on here!!

DVardysShadow

lindos90 wrote: »

My solicitor has just gone and got one of these without me even asking for it, or him advising whats its for and why I would need it, £115!

Im quite miffed, as the vendor bought the property themselves about 2 years ago, they may very well have a policy that is transferable judging by some of the posts on here!!

It may be that your lender would require it. But still bad to do it without reference to you.

lindos90

DVardysShadow wrote: »

It may be that your lender would require it. But still bad to do it without reference to you.

I'll contact them and ask if they have checked if the vendor has one to transfer. That should satisfy the mortgage lender i would hope.

It will be another one of my requests that they ignore no doubt, or they will hold the phone away from their ear, shuffle a few papers and come back to the phone and say 'no, sorry the vendor does not have a transferable one, you will have to but a new one'

You can tell im felling quite jaded about this house buying malarky tonight, and very unimpressed with my solicitor!!:rotfl:

If the ability of churches to do this ends in 2013, then theres only 4 years cover needed, so unless churches realise this and theres a mad rush of chancel repair demands to parisheners, its seems a waste of money to have the insurance.

I'd rather actually GIVE the cost of the policy to the church or a charity, at least it would be used for something condtructive!!

pommymike

I tend to agree that it is usually a waste of money to have the insurance, but if you are getting a mortgage the solicitors may have to do it to protect the lender. However the risk insured against is claims by the church for money, not the registration of potential liability. The liability only arises if the chancel needs repairing and the church decides to make a claim. The insurers will not pay out just because registration of potential liability occurs. Therefore if you decide you need the insurance, then logically it is best to opt for indefinite cover, not just 25 years and to include successors in title. The risk therefore does not end after 12/10/2013.
It is possible to obtain from the National Archives on DVD a copy of the Record of Ascertainments for the parish (a summary of the tithe records prepared by the Tithe Redemption Commissioners in 1936) and this would not be a full property specific search so the outcome would not need to be reported to the Land Registry. There is only tithe based liability if there is an M (merger) number written against the description of your tithe field. It will be necessary to check the tithe map (which may be very unclear) to see what property (if any) is affected. You can also search for enclosure (or inclosure) awards for your county in Google. Enclosure awards are often available on the internet (for example there is one for West Kingsdown on the Kent Archeological Society website) and it is only those tithe fields which were allotted to the lay rector in lieu of tithe that carry liability.
I have also posted a comment in the Consumer Forums about how limited the liability might be.
My impression is that most PCCs will decide that it is not worthwhile, not politic and not ethical to register CRL.

Richard_Webster

If the ability of churches to do this ends in 2013, then theres only 4 years cover needed, so unless churches realise this and theres a mad rush of chancel repair demands to parisheners, its seems a waste of money to have the insurance.

That isn't quite the position. After 13th October 2013 when a property is sold where no actual chancel liability has been registered at the Land Registry then the buyer acquires it free from any liability at all.

Anyone buying now will still be at risk until they sell it, but the Church can't make any further registrations after 13/10 2013.

It is a typical government fudge of hoping the thing goes away. Eventually, as more and more properties change hands a Church will have a real problem finding some that haven't changed hands if they haven't registered by the critical date. It would have been much easier simply to abolish the right altogether.

DVardysShadow

whirlwind_97 wrote: »

Hi Val, I can definatly say that it is the vendor who pays for the Chancel liability indemity cover. I had one of those reports about the property I was buying having a potential Liability to Chancel repair, and my Solicitor said it was definatly the vendor who coughed up. The reason for this, I have found out after googling is that you cant expect the puchaser to take on the risk, and also expect them to pay for it at the same time, remember they can always walk away from the deal before exchange.
whirlwind97

Although I agree with your reasoning as to why it should be the vendor, there is no hard and fast rule about who should pay

1echidna

whirlwind_97 wrote: »

Hi Val, I can definatly say that it is the vendor who pays for the Chancel liability indemity cover. I had one of those reports about the property I was buying having a potential Liability to Chancel repair, and my Solicitor said it was definatly the vendor who coughed up. The reason for this, I have found out after googling is that you cant expect the puchaser to take on the risk, and also expect them to pay for it at the same time, remember they can always walk away from the deal before exchange.
whirlwind97

Sorry to be rude kiddo, but you need to enter the real world. Just as with costs identified by survey, if the vendor refuses to shoulder them, if you the buyer want the property you will have to pay.