Council Tax benefit claim, information requested.

yellowplum

pandaspot wrote: »

Didn't you get asked all these questions when you original did made the claim?

Not originally, I got asked other questions last year, different ones this year. Ones that are completely irrelevant.

I was asked about shares last year and if I earned anything. As I stated previously I declared the earnings of WTC and the Lodger.

This year they didn't asked about that, they just asked the three questions on the first letter.

1. Did I earn anything from the company over the year.
2. What is the value of the Company.
3. How many Directors are in the company.

As I stated I can understand 1, what relevance is 2 and 3.

Then the phone call (nothing in writing) asked.

1. Income from 0871 number (this is the company's)
2. Documentation relating to a share split within the company.

So on this point, I can't see the relevance of 1, but 2 doesn't concern me - are they allowed to ask for information without putting it in writing.

fluffymovie

Requests for information are often made by phone now as it's quicker. If a change in circs mandate has been granted by the chief exec.

As for requests for information, there is no prescribed list of what to ask in all circumstances and an assessor will make a decision on what to ask for. This is down to experience and I would urge you to work with them, afterall, what have you got to lose?

pandaspot

I am sure that the assessor Is not asking these questions for there own nosiness

After you posted the question earlier I had a look in the guidance books in work ( I am an assessor) and you need to know how many directors there are so you spilit the value of the company equally. I didn't get chance to look further tho.

Perhaps contact your la and ask for an appointment with a senior assessor or even the team leader to discuss your claim further.

We normally invite all self employed claimants into the office for instances such as yours. So you can ask questions as well

real1314

yellowplum wrote: »

This was my point, I will read this in a moment. However my point isn't in providing them with information it is the legality of what I have to provide them.

I am employed by the company as company secretary and company director, the company has three other directors - I cannot provide information relating to the company that is not in the public domain.

You provide info to the tax man that is not in the public domain; Also, you can provide info about the company as you are a director and as such you are fully able to access and pass on that data.

My point is that I have answered the questions that relate to me. I am questioning why I have to provide details such as profit and loss of the company that includes it's assets and liabilities.

Profit and Loss of the company is part of the info YOU have access to as a director and as such there is no breach for you to provide this. Same with assets and liabilities. I assume you have to provide these to companies house? If so, they are in the public domain, albeit at a small fee.

I understand the point regarding the £6k share limit and I do not own more than £500 of shares. Not all of these are paid up which also complicates the situation.

I was also asked what the value of the company is. How can you value a Private Limited Company (unless I employ Ernst and Young)

Assets and Liabilities would be a start, profit would also help, along with your shareholding/equity.

So back to my original question, I understand why they want to know about my status to enable me to receive council tax discount (benefit) however I don't see why they need to know personal information relating to the company itself that would never come into play to assess the claim in the first place.

What do you mean by "personal information relating to the company" - they are separate entities according to you. However they need the info about YOUR ownership, YOUR potential profit, YOUR potential drawings etc

yellowplum wrote: »

Not originally, I got asked other questions last year, different ones this year. Ones that are completely irrelevant.
I was asked about shares last year and if I earned anything. As I stated previously I declared the earnings of WTC and the Lodger.

This year they didn't asked about that, they just asked the three questions on the first letter.

1. Did I earn anything from the company over the year.
2. What is the value of the Company.
3. How many Directors are in the company.

As I stated I can understand 1, what relevance is 2 and 3.

2. Establishes how much of it's assets are attributable to YOU, 3 adds to it.

Then the phone call (nothing in writing) asked.

1. Income from 0871 number (this is the company's)
2. Documentation relating to a share split within the company.

So on this point, I can't see the relevance of 1, but 2 doesn't concern me - are they allowed to ask for information without putting it in writing.

How can anyone know how much of the company, it's assets and it's profits "should" be attributable to you without this info?

Are you a qualified accountant or have you just been on a short bookkeeping course? You appear to think you know a lot about company law, but you seem to know little about benefit laws. It gives the clear impression that you are trying to hide something.

Emmzi

When you say £500 of shares that's just their nominal value. If your £500 of shares is 10% of the company and the comapny has assets of a million pounds - yes, you have capital.

If you don't want to answer the questions, you have to stop/ repay the benefit.

They are completely legally entitled to make these enquiries.

A valuation of the company would include assets - liabilities as a kick off and an assessment of profit (as opposed to wages or dividends) - Ernst and Young not required unless you are a complex multinational.

yellowplum

Emmzi wrote: »

When you say £500 of shares that's just their nominal value. If your £500 of shares is 10% of the company and the comapny has assets of a million pounds - yes, you have capital.

If you don't want to answer the questions, you have to stop/ repay the benefit.

They are completely legally entitled to make these enquiries.

A valuation of the company would include assets - liabilities as a kick off and an assessment of profit (as opposed to wages or dividends) - Ernst and Young not required unless you are a complex multinational.

I am intrigued, how would you go about valuing a private limited company then?

I am not adverse to answering questions that are relevant to my claim, I am concerned thought about requests for questions which are not relevant or that I have no control in answering.

Last point, should they not request everything in writing?

Emmzi

Well personally when I was a business banker I'd add up the assets, I'd add up the liabilities, take one fron the other and start there. I'd be cautious about intangibles like patents and goodwill, but I'd have a look at them.

So a combination of balance sheet and profit and loss account - like any other business, sole trader, ltd co or partnership. You also have a "going concern" valuation and a "forced sale" valuation. I could give you a reasonably solid estimate in half an hour. You might not agree with it; you want a pro valuation, you hire a pro to do it.

This is not rocket science or a dark art, it is quite simple, and it happens hundreds of times a day in banks and accountancy firms all around the country. Unless the company makes some obscure cutting edge scientific item, then it can be really tough. But normal things like painters, bakeries, property businesses, shops, farms.. all quite simple.

Why do they have to ask in writing unless you are difficult and refuse and they feel the need to make it more formal?

yellowplum

We are an obscure business unfortunately.

pandaspot

Like I said above why don't you just make an appointment with an assessor and discuss your claim with them. They will not be asking questions that are not needed.

Infact self employed claims are the worse ones to assess and I can ensure you we just want to get them assessed asap.

The assessor who is dealing with your claim will seriously have no personal interest in you or your company. They just want to get this claim done and out of there tray, where they probably have another 40claims on the go at the same time.

Just send in the stuff they need, otherwise don't and tell them they are too intrusive and withdraw your claim.

The assessor is not acting illegally they just want to get this claim done. Ringing you was to help you, so the claim is done quicker.

yellowplum

pandaspot wrote: »

Like I said above why don't you just make an appointment with an assessor and discuss your claim with them. They will not be asking questions that are not needed.

Infact self employed claims are the worse ones to assess and I can ensure you we just want to get them assessed asap.

The assessor who is dealing with your claim will seriously have no personal interest in you or your company. They just want to get this claim done and out of there tray, where they probably have another 40claims on the go at the same time.

Just send in the stuff they need, otherwise don't and tell them they are too intrusive and withdraw your claim.

The assessor is not acting illegally they just want to get this claim done. Ringing you was to help you, so the claim is done quicker.

Where it stems from is the fact that they do not understand the difference between self employment and employment. It is not that I am adverse to providing relevant information. I just find it completely strange that there is no consistency in what is requested and also that they request information from one person (who seemingly disappears) then I get a completely different request from another person.