The dreaded Council Tax

jennifernil

If your pension increases then you would pay more income tax. Wealth on paper does not pay the bills.

ManAtHome

So you'd be happy about all the Monaco-based, UK property-owners payng absolutely zilch.?

You'd be happy about somebody else funding part of whatever part of your paper wealth you pass on even if they couldn't afford to buy a house.?

As I've said before - tax will never be fair. Some taxes, like GB(H)s raft of stealth taxes are impossible to forecast, but rates/council tax isn't one of them - been around in this form for a long long time. Why is it suddenly time for a change, how is changing it going to reduce the overall burden, and what will be the effects 10 years down the road?

klondyke

Just been reading this thread and noticed that no one has mentioned the iniquitous extra charge on Londoners for the Olympics and no guarantee that they are not going to increase this further because of their budgeting ineptitude. You'd think - at least I would - that if the Olympics are going to do so much for local business, why the .... are they charging residents. Perhaps because they are busy demolishing local businesses to make way for the equivalent of another Dome. Oh, and it's supposed to help our sporting youngsters with training etc - so they withdraw funding from local sports clubs, having sold off school playing fields already. Grrrrrr.

EdInvestor

ManAtHome wrote:

As I've said before - tax will never be fair. Some taxes, like GB(H)s raft of stealth taxes are impossible to forecast, but rates/council tax isn't one of them - been around in this form for a long long time.

Taxes on spending ( eg VAT, petrol tax etc) are IMHO in some ways better than income taxes as they give you more choice - if you don't want to pay the tax, don't buy the product.They do however tend to impact more on the less well off, so it's important that things like food are zero-rated - these days tax credits for lower paid families probably even things out even more.

Council tax seems to be a constant bugbear everywhere. My impression is that central Government might be loading requirements on councils which they can't afford without big rises, and also that the central funding support is geographically uneven, leading to perceptions of unfairness.

The pensions burden is also one which has crept up on all levels of Government without much warning - and it's not easy for them to control the problem as it relates to longevity more than anything else and is also very political, because of the trade union involvement in this area.

Meanwhile the amount of participation in local elections does not seem big enough to galavanise anyone into taking much action really....

Mike_S_8

ManAtHome wrote:

I don't belive the forever above-inflation (however you measure it) increases are a direct result of the collection method.

Neither do I - and I didn't say that, although having two teams (one for billing and one for collection) in each of the hundreds of collecting authorities across the length and breadth of the country is an extravagance that could be dispensed with (with associated cost savings) if the Revenue collected the tax.

The solution if anything is to make more people taxable ...

Exactly - and that's what an income-based tax would achieve. OK - and as you have said - there would be some who would end up paying more. (From what you have posted I get the impression that you think you may fall into that category, which maybe explains why you say what you say(?) ) And there will always be those can afford to spend money finding all the loopholes. But if the burden was spread more evenly and therefore more "thinly" it may not be worth the effort and cost of trying to figure a way around it(?)

Re. pensions - Phew! Another whole topic. Did you realise:
1) That for every £1 that a local govt. employee contributes to the index-linked, final-salary, Local Govt. Pension Scheme this year, we CT payers have to cough up £2.95? and
2) That all councillors' allowances are pensionable within the same scheme - and with the same terms?

Can I ask? Do you work in the public sector?

CIS

Neither do I - and I didn't say that, although having two teams (one for billing and one for collection) in each of the hundreds of collecting authorities across the length and breadth of the country is an extravagance that could be dispensed with (with associated cost savings) if the Revenue collected the tax.

In our area billing and collection are dealt with by the same people.

ManAtHome

Mike - as you ask, I've worked freelance for nearly 30 years, and will (hopefully) be retiring early in the near future. I would be worse off if income tax was raised by 12p in the pound.

Very little of what we're discussing is likely to affect me, but I do think it's time people woke up from the NuLab "forever boom" nightmare (even though it may be a dream at the moment).

hodgester

CIS wrote:

In our area billing and collection are dealt with by the same people.

ditto. the 8 staff and us 3 management earn so much we account for at least 3% of the monthly council tax bill. honest.

personally when the lyons report is done and the re-val comes in I'm bailing out. this tax becomes more contentious every year and the abuse gets worse and worse without any kind of reasoned debate from our 'customers', who will quite happily blame the postal service, the benefits service, their banks - anyone for not paying a bill on time (or at all)....

I'd rather a local income tax, it will stop the little shysters dodging payments, though of course most of them will quit work rather than face anymore PAYE.

EdInvestor

Mike_S wrote:

Re. pensions - Phew! Another whole topic. Did you realise:
1) That for every £1 that a local govt. employee contributes to the index-linked, final-salary, Local Govt. Pension Scheme this year, we CT payers have to cough up £2.95? and

This is quite normal for final salary pension schemes. Since I'm a shareholder of BT, do you think I should complain because my dividends are reduced by the fact the company has to pay a similar contribution into the staff pension scheme?

The UK (indeed the world) undoubtedly has a pension problem, with costs for guaranteed pensions having rocketed by 150% in 10 years, much the same as house prices.

But IMHO bashing public sector workers is not fair, and nor will it solve the problem as it certainly isn't their fault this has happened.Indeed they are disadvantaged in a way, as the quid pro quo for their pensions in future is lower salaries now - which means they are have a much worse struggle buying a home.

We should be careful what we wish for.

Mike_S_8

EdInvestor wrote:

Indeed they are disadvantaged in a way, as the quid pro quo for their pensions in future is lower salaries now - which means they are have a much worse struggle buying a home.

It's a couple of years old but see: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/ashemid1004.pdf