The AA ... and their alleged non receipt of postal correspondence

Premier_2

So my advice to anyone is if you write to the AA, send it by recorded delivery!

Last year I took out car insurance via the AA. This came together with 1 year's complimentary AA breakdown cover subject to signing up to breakdown cover with continuous payment authority.
I hate those methods but it was the only way they would provide it, assuring me I could cancel at any time.
Not wishing to look a gift horse in the mouth, but knowing I wouldn't want AA cover for future years I deliberately gave a card that I knew was soon due for renewal. On renewal, the card company give a different card number.

In addition, I probably called the AA later to advise them to cancel the continuous authority payment (but I can't be sure)

This year I decided to purchase car insurance elsewhere, and don't want the AA breakdown cover.

I wrote to the AA two separate letters on separate days over a month ago. One addressed to AA insurance services at a PO box in Newcastle (for the car insurance), and the other to AA insurance services at Fanum House in Hampshire (for breakdown cover)

It appears the AA conveniently failed to receive, or process, either cancellation notice.:mad:

For the car insurance they were stuck so wrote a snotty letter saying we've not heard from you and we've cancelled your insurance as you failed to pay the renewal premium.

For the breakdown cover, I see they've managed to take the money from the card - it seems the new one having a different number didn't stop them.

What's the chances of two separate letters sent on two separate days from two separate post boxes going to two separate addresses both conveniently not arriving? :cool:

The AA, after some arguments today, have agreed reluctantly to refund the money they collected ... but they said it may take weeks to get back to the card.

Contacted my credit card company who first were quite defensive saying if the cancellation was not made before the collection date then there was little they could do to help, but when I explained that it was cancelled last month, they've agreed to help if the money doesn't return to the account rapidly. They said they are sending me a claim form which will be with me in 3-5 days.

But my advise to anyone contacting the AA for anything important is to put it in writing and make sure it is signed for on delivery else they will ignore it if it suits them ... based purely on my experiences.

mikey72

Similar story in a thread in the motoring section as well.
They may be making a habit of it.

lisyloo

I'd advise everyone to send their lapse letters by recorded delivery for an additional 74p.
Technically some people will tell you that sending the letter is legally sufficient (which you can prove with a free proof of posting).
However many organisations will not accept this (when they are the inteneded recipient) and who wants to go to court??

It also indicates to the recipient that you know they have received it, so could actually prevent cynical organsations from fobbing you off in the first place.

mikey72

Recorded delivery doesn't normally provide proof, as it's just dumped in the normal mail bag. Special delivery in the only way to prove they have actually received it.

Quentin

Special delivery costs a minimum £5.05 and can still get lost in the post! Seems ott for this.

magpiecottage

lisyloo wrote: »

I'd advise everyone to send their lapse letters by recorded delivery for an additional 74p.
Technically some people will tell you that sending the letter is legally sufficient (which you can prove with a free proof of posting).
However many organisations will not accept this (when they are the inteneded recipient) and who wants to go to court??

It also indicates to the recipient that you know they have received it, so could actually prevent cynical organsations from fobbing you off in the first place.

You would not need to go to court. You would simply need to supply a copy of the proof of posting and remind them that the Financial Ombudsman Service will therefore deem them to have received it two working days later.

They will know that this will not only mean they would lose but they would also pay FOS £500 to be told they were wrong.

On the other hand, if you send the item recorded delivery and the Post Office doesn't actually get a record of delivery (as has happened twice to me) then they can argue to FOS that it was not delivered because the paid for proof of delivery does not exist.

So paying for recorded delivery will make your case slightly stronger if you get the proof of delivery but seriously undermine it if you don't.

Quentin

magpiecottage wrote: »

You would not need to go to court. You would simply need to supply a copy of the proof of posting and remind them that the Financial Ombudsman Service will therefore deem them to have received it two working days later.

They will know that this will not only mean they would lose but they would also pay FOS £500 to be told they were wrong............................

So paying for recorded delivery will make your case slightly stronger if you get the proof of delivery but seriously undermine it if you don't.

The OP's suggestion remains the best belt and braces - it's a shame that we have to consider belt and braces anyway.

But we cannot trust insurers to act on our telephone instructions - seems that often their agents are trained not to action the telephoned instructions, and following on from that to happily tell customers their written instructions were never received so tough!

(Same mindset that has many "reputable" insurers putting the unenforceable "no mot = no cover" clause in policies which they will attempt (and no doubt often succeed with) on gullible policyholders.)

All the average policyholder wants is to cancel and be sure their instructions are acted on.

Using recorded delivery definitely gives you proof of posting and should give you proof of receipt. Thats proper belt and braces!

So much easier to have this for most people than to have to start quoting the ombudsman if all you have is proof of posting!

(And if you have a recorded delivery proof of posting, how can it "undermine" your case??)

Premier_2

magpiecottage wrote: »

...
They will know that this will not only mean they would lose but they would also pay FOS £500 to be told they were wrong...

I wouldn't play the £500 card myself - it sounds like desperation.

I recently posted details of what claims to the FOS were actually chargeable (only about 1 in 6 actually end up being so)

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3056586

The first 3 otherwise chargeable claims (or an average 18 submissions) are not chargeable anyway, and for most large organisations that that may get considerably more than 21 complaints submitted in a year, a £500 charge is probably neither here nor there ... especially to some minimum wage slave who is reading/listening/responding to your claim.

lisyloo

Recorded delivery doesn't normally provide proof

The ones I've done normally do.
Sometimes they even show a signature on the internet.
My anecdotal experience is that companies will accept this whereas they won't accept proof of posting.
But at the end of the day it's up to the organisation involved.

You would simply need to supply a copy of the proof of posting and remind them that the Financial Ombudsman Service will therefore deem them to have received it two working days later.

A lot of organistaions won't accept that.
So you will either face many months delay going to the ombudsman or going to court.
I don't deny you'll win, but I don't think it's the best way.
I think 74p which usually the company concerned will agree has been delivered is the best route.

On the other hand, if you send the item recorded delivery and the Post Office doesn't actually get a record of delivery (as has happened twice to me) then they can argue to FOS that it was not delivered because the paid for proof of delivery does not exist.

You ahev jsut contradicted yourself.
Surely if you have proof of delivery (orange receipt) this proves you posted it, and you yourself have said this is sufficient.

So paying for recorded delivery will make your case slightly stronger if you get the proof of delivery but seriously undermine it if you don't.

No it doesn't undermine you case, because earlier you say posting is sufficient.
You have contradicted yourself.

I personally always get my insurance from companies that don't auto-renew it.

magpiecottage

lisyloo wrote: »

But at the end of the day it's up to the organisation involved.

A lot of organistaions won't accept that.

If they keep telling the FOS they don't accept it then FOS will tell the FSA. They are then likely to find them they are publicly forced to change their ways which they do not like!

lisyloo wrote: »

So you will either face many months delay going to the ombudsman or going to court.

Probably not if you go to FOS as they are likely to try to pull out the stops if it has simply been lost in the system.

lisyloo wrote: »

I don't deny you'll win, but I don't think it's the best way.
I think 74p which usually the company concerned will agree has been delivered is the best route.

I think we may have to agree to disagree on that except that your route will probably perpetuate the problem.

lisyloo wrote: »

You ahev jsut contradicted yourself.
Surely if you have proof of delivery (orange receipt) this proves you posted it, and you yourself have said this is sufficient.

No it doesn't undermine you case, because earlier you say posting is sufficient.
You have contradicted yourself.

Wrong. If there is proof that a letter was posted then, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, it is deemed to have been delivered two working days later.

However, your orange receipt is not simply proof of posting, it also shows that if the document has been delivered it will show on the Royal Mail system. Therefore, the fact that it does not appear on Royal Mails system means that it is more likely than not that it was not received. Consequently the 8 weeks has never started to run.

lisyloo wrote: »

I personally always get my insurance from companies that don't auto-renew it.

I would trade it off against the price saving. A pound or so and I would agree it is unlikely to be worth the trouble. £100 and I would prefer to take the chance as I can find something better to do with that money.


Personally, though, if you can, it is best to just fax it. That will give you an immediate receipt with a time. If it is a business day and before 5 pm it will be deemed to have arrived that day, otherwise the next working day.

Pretty straightforward really. The fax number is normally given in their entry on the FSA register and many PCs have fax modems.

magpiecottage

Premier wrote: »

I wouldn't play the £500 card myself - it sounds like desperation.

I recently posted details of what claims to the FOS were actually chargeable (only about 1 in 6 actually end up being so)

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3056586

The first 3 otherwise chargeable claims (or an average 18 submissions) are not chargeable anyway, and for most large organisations that that may get considerably more than 21 complaints submitted in a year, a £500 charge is probably neither here nor there ... especially to some minimum wage slave who is reading/listening/responding to your claim.

I wouldn't make a big thing of the fee either - because it could be seen as blackmail rather than desparation.

However, somebody the size of the AA almost certainly will get more than three chargeable cases in a year and in reality if you have proof that you sent a complaint over two months ago and have heard nothing then it becomes chargeable. The "non-chargeable" stuff is largely timebarred, out of jurisdiction or the consumer has gone to FOS without first complaining to the firm.