Outstanding finance on car

Flyboy152

reduceditem wrote: »

I know that, which is why I said it ''may'' help.

My discussions with the finance company might well be of interest to the OP.

How can it help, if the rules are totally different.

In your thread, your friend buys a car from an individual who hasn't paid off his finance. In this case, a car has been from a dealer and it is most likely (99% likely) that the finance company hasn't updated the register on HPI. I don't see the similarities.

reduceditem

Flyboy152 wrote: »

How can it help, if the rules are totally different.

In your thread, your friend buys a car from an individual who hasn't paid off his finance. In this case, a car has been from a dealer and it is most likely (99% likely) that the finance company hasn't updated the register on HPI. I don't see the similarities.

I didn't say there were similarities.

I said the details of my conversations with the finance company might interest the OP. As in.....how they treat people who are innocently caught up in these types of scenarios. Clear enough yet?

vaio

Flyboy152 wrote: »

That scenario is very different t what he OP is experiencing. You friend bought a car from a private individual who hadn't settled their finance on their car. The OP has purchased a car from a dealer. That transaction has a different set of rules.

I wasn't aware that the CCA differentiated between private and business sellers

Don’t suppose you have a link?

Flyboy152

vaio wrote: »

I wasn't aware that the CCA differentiated between private and business sellers

Don’t suppose you have a link?

I'll try to find one, but I am so sure that this actually a CCA issue, more of a contractual one.

vaio

CCA gives innocent purchasers good title, with (I don’t think) any differentiation between private & business sellers.

There might well be contractual remedies but they will be between buyer & seller, the CCA protection prevents the finance company reclaiming the car from the innocent buyer by giving him good title

bigjl

The buyer of the car in this instance is indeed covered by the innocent buyer rules, a dealer is not allowed to sell a car on finance, though it is possible that the car was traded in and that HPi hasn't been informed that the car is now clear of finance.


The situation when somebody buys a car privately that they don't know is on finance is different to the OP's position. If the car was bought priavately they would need to negotiate with the legal owner.

Can't remember the ins and outs but I thought that when you buy a car for cash from a proper dealer then good title is assumed, it is a legal obligation of the dealer to settle any finance before selling the car on.

Though as I have already said, it isn't unusual for a car to have finance recored on it with HPi for weeks after a loan is settled.

When I traded my WRX in for a new Legacy the WRX finance agreement was shown as in arrears for 2 months after the finance was settled due to the dealer not sending the cheque for three weeks, the new owner of my WRX had by this time already bought the car for cash and was off into the sunset a happy man.

The dealer got it sorted pretty quick when I threatened to contact the new owner and tell him what was going on.


To the OP, keep all your paperwork and record all communication and times and dates of all telephone conversations, just to be on the safe side.

Flyboy152

vaio wrote: »

CCA gives innocent purchasers good title, with (I don’t think) any differentiation between private & business sellers.

There might well be contractual remedies but they will be between buyer & seller, the CCA protection prevents the finance company reclaiming the car from the innocent buyer by giving him good title

The major difference being the new owner has to proof "innocent purchaser," it is not assumed. The finance compnay can repossess the vehicle first and then the new owner has to prove that they have good title, to get it back. If they can't, then they lose the vehicle and the money they paid for it. If a dealer sells a vehicle with outstanding finance, it is a different matter entireley.

vaio

Under CCA innocent buyers are ones who didn’t know or suspect there was finance on the car.

Proving a negative is very difficult (if not impossible), all a buyer can do is make a witness statement saying he neither knew or suspected there was finance, the finance company can either accept that or submit their evidence to the contrary and a judge will decide.

Given that only an idiot (or fraudster) would knowingly buy a car with outstanding finance that essentially moves the onus of proof onto the finance company and, given that the assumption is most people aren’t idiots and the proof is balance of probabilities it’s not a very high hurdle to cross.

Exactly the same rules apply to business sales, if a trader sells a punter a car on finance and then goes bust or disappears without paying the finance off then the CCA gives the buyer good title as long as he didn’t know the car was on finance.

If he did know about the finance then the finance company still have title to the car and can repossess leaving the poor punter to try and recover his money along with all the other unsecured creditors.

Flyboy152

vaio wrote: »

Under CCA innocent buyers are ones who didn’t know or suspect there was finance on the car.

Proving a negative is very difficult (if not impossible), all a buyer can do is make a witness statement saying he neither knew or suspected there was finance, the finance company can either accept that or submit their evidence to the contrary and a judge will decide.

Given that only an idiot (or fraudster) would knowingly buy a car with outstanding finance that essentially moves the onus of proof onto the finance company and, given that the assumption is most people aren’t idiots and the proof is balance of probabilities it’s not a very high hurdle to cross.

Exactly the same rules apply to business sales, if a trader sells a punter a car on finance and then goes bust or disappears without paying the finance off then the CCA gives the buyer good title as long as he didn’t know the car was on finance.

If he did know about the finance then the finance company still have title to the car and can repossess leaving the poor punter to try and recover his money along with all the other unsecured creditors.

They're not my rules. If the seller says, "well, I told him there was outstanding finance and he promised he would settle it," the buyer has to prove he did not know there was outstanding finance. The rules for business sales are somewhat different. The seller has to prove the buyer knew there was outstanding finance, because it is strictly assumed that a business would have settled the finance already.

naz101

when my parents tried to buy a car from another big dealer in glasgow, they called met o ask me what I thought as the sales person was vey pushy.
i got the licence plate number and details and looked it all up and found out it has outstanding finance of £4800 still on it.
I told my parents to walk away but the sales person insisted I was just a young person who was mistaken and there was no finance on it at all. Eventually he walked away and came back and said he had spoken to his manager and there was finance outstanding afterall.

parents got a good deal on the car after finance was paid of. we complained to the head office that surely they should know which cars had finance on them, only to be told something along the lines of " they have done nothing wrong. they did eventually tell you....":mad: