How will reclaiming bank charges impact banking discussion

lindilou39

natweststaffmember wrote: »

some interesting stuff Ivan, except 90% of the charges levied are not for letters because they are not sent out. NatWest(i work for them so cannot speak for other banks) send out a letter on the first unpaid, stating that no further warnings would be given and items will simply be returned. It is Automated so what would the cost associated with it be? The debate is NOT that a charge should NOT be levied BUT that the charge that is levied is proportionate to cost. So a £1 standing order can be returned for £38 when the CYNTHESYS system shows that it would cost in reality about £2 which the Money Programme also looked at, they included costing such as staff and premises and electric. A former NatWest director took part in the programme. The issue is not that you should be charged for breaching a contract but that the cost should reflect the actual Loss. I signed a contract that is governed by UK Law which is why I could argue in court that my charges are unlawful under contract law(that would be if I had any to start with).

aye natty but they wont reply to your argument

natweststaffmember

change of tack, Ivan, how much in percentage wise has costs gone up in say the last 7 years in total? I see you would have experience on that front so would we say 25%?

IvanOpinion

lindilou39 wrote: »

Thing is...IF banks say they are charging fairly then why does each bank differ??? i.e it costs a customer £25 say for a returned DD then a diff bank for the same reason charges £39??? If charges are fair then why do they differ from bank to bank?

I think what you are talking about here is a free market. I am amazed that some people are stupid enough to stay with banks that make the charges that they currently do ... they should shop around .. some banks already charge well under £20 for many of their fees. I believe in a free market and if people were not so lazy they would simply change bank (I have done a couple of times and contrary to what many think, it is easy).

The true cost ...is the price it actually costs to print that letter and send it off amongst an admin charge and as we all know the banks use minimum wage earners to spew these things out

See my post above, you are wrong here. Most of this stuff is spewed out automatically by computers following a simple set of rules ... they do NOT require minimum wage or other earners.

...just because one bank uses basic equipement and another uses the top range of product should not reflect back on the customer.

I am not quite sure where this comes from ... putting the argument backwards would you be happy to accept that one bank may respond to its customers within 3-4 months because it only uses a cheap laser printer. If a cost is incurred then it one must consider that the cost can be passed on .. if that becomes to expensive then they will lose customers and look for a more cost effective method.

Be careful about using 'the price it actually cost' ... in previous posts I have given examples of where a letter that nobody wanted cost £60+ ... another exmaple showed of how a simple ad hoc letter could cost several thousand .. I assume you do not think it would be fair to pass those charges onto the customer.

As I have said before there has to be a happy medium.

Ivan

IvanOpinion

natweststaffmember wrote: »

change of tack, Ivan, how much in percentage wise has costs gone up in say the last 7 years in total? I see you would have experience on that front so would we say 25%?

A very good question and one that is generally hard to answer withoout having all the information to hand.

Capital write-off of equipment and possibly the original software development will remain static (probably written off over a fixed number of years). If new equipment is needed then at the lower end of the market it may well have come down in price (e.g. basic laser printers) but the high volume printing euipment is likely to have remained pretty consistent in price.

The big influence on cost though is likely to be labour which has increased significantly. The cost to maintain the software may have decreased due to becoming more stable but on the other hand it will have increased due to ongoing developments and enhancements (including the never ending list of customer demands and management wanting more and more figures for analysis). The cost of manning the print rooms etc. will have gone up in line with labour costs. The interesting one though is the cost of call centres which because many jobs are minimum age will have risen significantly more than inflationary pressures.

Cost of stationary .. I have no idea which direction it has gone .. although postage has risen significantly. The interesting thing about postage is that a company can get massive discounts by confirming to various mailsort/walksort criteria however that in itself may require additional developments to maximise such benefits.

Ivan

Graham_Devon

lindilou39 wrote: »

you like graham and other people come in our threads and post pathetic argument...get from up your own A**e and stop tasting eachothers dinners.

Mmmm, he had roast pork with apple sauce

lindilou39

yet labour is a minimum wage scale....why else do LLoydsTsb use Indian call centres

lindilou39

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Mmmm, he had roast pork with apple sauce

lol i got that too

Graham_Devon

lindilou39 wrote: »

yet labour is a minimum wage scale....why else do LLoydsTsb use Indian call centres

Thats the reason your letters cost so much, they come from India and the price of airmail is just silly

natweststaffmember

charges in the last 5 years have risen 100% and stationery costs are being reduced, cost income ratios when they announce profits. I am sure I have read a thread with regards to stationery on Consumeractiongroup which stated that the costs are not anywhere like the figures you have mentioned. However, in contract the individual makes and can vary that contract, so a strategy if you do not like the charges regime is something dragonlady has done, cross out conditions on opening or write to the bank given 30 days notice of a variance in the contract. You can and the bank does. Where will it end? well, OFT ruled on Credit Cards and do you pay for having a credit card? Nope except fee free transfers went out of the window.

IvanOpinion

Dragonlady wrote: »

Ivan,

I saw the programme and I have seen the spreadsheets from the Yorkshire Bank. No hypothesis, actual figures provided by the Bank.

I would love to see it to see what is included which is why I can not pass any comment on a specific such as this. If however they are relying on the sort of 'Axxx' numbers in the link from Tanzi then I have to say that they can be given little credibility. As I said to Tanzi, try it yourself on your own computer .. 26 seconds to access your own online account .. I doubt it. Maybe there is a lot more beyond the figures presented but one can only work on the information supplied.

ivan