You don't have to live in the deepest countryside to need a car!

nickyhutch

ceridwen wrote: »

I can understand some of the previous points (though I dont personally believe in organising ones life around having to have a car) - but I believe the answer to the question re the district nurse getting around would be "The same way she always used to - ie on a pushbike". From memory - I think that is what used to happen in the past.

The amount of stuff a DN has to take with her/him, and the geographical area covered these days would make that very difficult. The time taken between visits wouldn't go down well with target-driven managers either.

littlerat

Humphrey10 wrote: »

No-one needs a car. Some people choose to live in places where they need a car, or do jobs that need cars, but they don't need to live there or do those jobs, they choose to.

I am about to move jobs. The new job is within driving distance of here, but not practical on public transport (3 changes, 90 mins+), so I was intending to drive. I had a car until recently. I now do not, and the DVLA say I cannot drive for 6 months.

Now instead of whining about it or sitting at home on benefits, I'm just going to move somewhere where I can easily commute to the new job.

I know a family with children without cars (some them can drive and hire cars/vans for eg moving house but not day to day), they cope fine - they choose to live in places they don't need cars. I imagine big cities like London are full of people who don't own cars, in fact I don't think any of the people I know who live in London have cars. Cars really aren't vital.

Hmmm... for that to apply I'd need to find the money to move, which isn't easy if you don't have a job and can't get one as you need a car to get there... it's a vicious circle really.

Even if you move somewhere with good bus services, there's no guarantee they'll stay that way. Likewise jobs may change/be removed - all your post works on people being able to afford to keep moving to areas where they don't need cars.

ceridwen

Further on "fixed fees" for sharing cars.

In my first job - many years back - I had naively taken on the job without thinking about how I was going to get there and back (as I hadnt even had time to think - I got offered the very first job I applied for instantly...those were the days when that was common). Hence - problem - so I contacted my new workplace and told them and they fixed me up with a cardriver from my area to get regular lifts to/from and I paid him a fixed fee towards his petrol each week. It worked fine.

I think there will need to be some lateral thinking about how to reorganise ones life a bit and a lot of "community carshare" schemes will need to start up. This way:
- carowners will get a helping hand with petrol costs
- non carowners will be able to get about still

I have to admit that when I bought my house QUITE some years ago now - that my primary consideration was location and I made sure it was suitably conveniently located to allow for the fact that in many years to come in The Future cars would become much more expensive to run AND there would be cutbacks for a while in public transport (until Society adapted to having to provide better and cheaper public transport). I didnt want to suffer during the adaptation period (because I didnt know how long it would take to "transition over" to a pretty carfree society - with a LOT of public transport instead) - so I am very conscious of having "made my plans" over 20 years ago to cater for right now.

So - having made my own personal plans to deal with my transport requirements during the Transport Transition period - then I have few personal concerns.

However - I have always seen community organisations as having to get together/get set up in the first place specifically to deal transporting people around until we are through to the other side of this Transition period. We now have an advantage I didnt think of back then - ie of the vast majority of people now having home Internet access. There must be a way to use this Internet access to advantage for people to "plug in" to local "communal lift offer/needs". I would see this as being done on a street level - ie each town/city/village setting up a website specifically for local liftsharing and people just being able to click on their particular locality (or even street) to see who is offering or requires lifts. There would need to be a "fixed fee" arrangement per number of miles people require lifts for - to deal with the fact that some carowners will be too embarrassed to ask for a contribution on the one hand and others would ask for too much and try and treat it as a "business" on the other hand.

NEH

In the good old days there were more buses and trains and train stations as well....

These days you do need a car in a lot of places...

My mum needs a car as the buses are few and far between after major cutbacks a number of years ago. When there is a bus the journey times are horrendous as they have to go round the houses as there is so few services they have to cover all places....Added to the fact that a lot of people can't manage to drag all their shopping home on the bus...

It's the same where i used to live a couple of years ago, bus fares have risen, services aren't as frequent and if some poor mother came along with a pushchair and someone else was on the bus with a pushchair that was it she had to wait for the next one...The reliability wasn't great either and you could quite often find yourself stranded...

Trains aren't much better, our service to our town here is 2 at rush hour and then every 2 hours after that. They're more often than not full and overcrowded that even the guards are fed up....Wierdly as well the buses here are the same price if not more expensive than than the train and it's a far longer journey...

As for houses being cheaper in areas lacking public transport we can but dream

As for moving nearer work, a lot of people are priced out of the areas they work in...Some people don't want to have to put up with sharing a house or living in a tiny cramped flat when 10 or more miles away they can get a decent house...

Sadly cars are a necessary way of life for many...

bap98189

Very few people actually need a car.

The problem nowadays is that because most people have one, we rely on it because we have geared up our lives on the assumption that we will have a car. As a result people live far further from their workplace/school than they used to. People also walk or cycle far less than in the past and as a result convince themselves they cannot live without a car. They are right insofar as they cannot see a way to do so, but the reality is that they could if they changed other things about their lifestyle or living situation.

The price of petrol is going to continue to rise and rise over the next couple of decades. Commuting is going to be come more and more expensive. The obvious solution is for people to re-organise their life so they travel less miles, which is ultimately what successive governments have been trying to achieve by constantly raising the tax on fuel. I think we are approaching the point at which fuel use will make people think seriously about cutting back on car use.

ceridwen

nickyhutch wrote: »

The amount of stuff a DN has to take with her/him, and the geographical area covered these days would make that very difficult. The time taken between visits wouldn't go down well with target-driven managers either.

Actually you have raised another consideration for "transitioning" over to a more carfree future - and that is the one that it wont just be individuals who will have to find ways to adapt. Employers will also have to change their mindset as well and allow for a degree of adapting jobs to cater for their employees not having to use cars to do them. They won't like it one little bit - the same as high-falutin' executives often WANT to keep right on jetting round the world for meetings (ie instead of videoconferencing). This "rose" has some "thorns" in it - which employers ARENT going to like - but if they wish to "keep the show on the road" - then its time they started planning accordingly.

EDIT: I dont mean to sound "harsh" to employers. But I dont see the point of doing an ostrich with head in the sand routine. One has to deal with what IS - rather than what one would LIKE. So - it does boil down to "Are employers going to act like King Canute on the one hand or learn to swim on the other hand". That is how things are now..

LillythePink

Our bus service is rubbish - fine if you live on the main roads or on the coast.

The amount of cars over here is stupid and I know that I contribute to that as well, but with childminder drop offs/pick ups, it isn't possible or practical to try and get busses - 3 bus trips per morning and getting into work late - not picking DD up until later so more costs there.

Moving isn't an option due to house prices or more importantly the fees associated with buying a house, I do work with people who either cycle in, bus or walk - which is fine because they are either within walking distance, don't have kids or have partners who do the running around with the kids.

When DD moves school in September, it will be within walking distance for her, so I will go back to using my scooter, but for the moment, it isn't practical as I would be doubling back on myself and getting into work just in time or later.

There are loads of people who don't need to drive over here, but do because they are lazy and can afford to - our petrol is still cheap (ish) - very cheap in comparison to you in the UK, but more expensive because they wacked on a load of tax and abolished motor tax, we don't have paid parking either (which is good).

We live on an island which is 26 square miles, but our busses are huge - far to big for the roads over here and are very seldom full - if they bought in smaller busses, covering a wider area and a wider time span, then more people would use them

tooldle

I agree, very few people do need a car. Having a car is convenient in that you can go "now" rather than fitting your journey around the bus or train times. I grew up in a family without a car, and we managed just fine. I find now that I am far more willing to walk, take the bus or find some other method than my friends, most of whom call a cab if for any reason they cannot use their car. I am often amazed at families where ever member old enough to drive has their own vehicle. We have one vehicle which often sits outside the house for weeks on end. We both walk to work and daughter walks to school. Shopping is usually done on foot with a trolley, ultilising the bus for the heavy return journey. End result is that we usually fill the tank only once every three months.

System

bap98189 wrote: »

Very few people actually need a car.

The problem nowadays is that because most people have one, we rely on it because we have geared up our lives on the assumption that we will have a car. As a result people live far further from their workplace/school than they used to. People also walk or cycle far less than in the past and as a result convince themselves they cannot live without a car. They are right insofar as they cannot see a way to do so, but the reality is that they could if they changed other things about their lifestyle or living situation.

The price of petrol is going to continue to rise and rise over the next couple of decades. Commuting is going to be come more and more expensive. The obvious solution is for people to re-organise their life so they travel less miles, which is ultimately what successive governments have been trying to achieve by constantly raising the tax on fuel. I think we are approaching the point at which fuel use will make people think seriously about cutting back on car use.

What will happen is that people will start giving up their jobs because it is no longer cost effective.

You can not realistically price the car driver off the road if you haven't put the public transport infrastructure in place first to replace it.

System

tooldle wrote: »

I agree, very few people do need a car. Having a car is convenient in that you can go "now" rather than fitting your journey around the bus or train times.

My car journeys fit around my working hours. I can not use public transport to get to my job unless my boss is willing to allow me to be 90 minutes late in the morning and leave 30 minutes early in the evening