You don't have to live in the deepest countryside to need a car!

GlasweJen

But what are the chances of you moving between sites at short notice?

The regional manager I work under currently visits stores on a schedule so using access 2 work and my concessionary bus pass I can go right up to RM without ever needing to use my own car.

GobbledyGook

GlasweJen wrote: »

But what are the chances of you moving between sites at short notice?

The regional manager I work under currently visits stores on a schedule so using access 2 work and my concessionary bus pass I can go right up to RM without ever needing to use my own car.

Maybe once a fortnight or so? Sometimes you can go weeks and weeks and then sometimes you get 2 or 3 urgents in a week.

I think the biggest thing for someone in my job would be that I work on one site in the morning and one in the afternoon. I finish just as the children go for lunch and I'm back on again an hour later in the second place. That gives me 10 minutes for getting organised, 15 minutes to move site, 30 minutes to have lunch and 5 minutes to get the bits and bobs out at the second place.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

GobbledyGook wrote: »

Jojo - do you really think there is no-one in this country for whom a car is essential?

As an aside do people have a right by law to electricity? Surely if that was the case the electric people wouldn't be allowed to cut folks off?

No. I didn't say that. There are people for whom driving is their job.

But to say that it is impossible to hold down a job or manage children without personal transport is erroneous. The people in the country who do not have sufficient income to drive, who are unable to do so due to medical conditions or who simply have not passed a driving test, just get up a bit earlier, plan their day a bit better, and deal with public transport.

Personally, I worked with people who lived 10 minutes' walk from my home who insisted that it would be completely impossible to work at the firm if they didn't have a car. Their children went to the same school as mine, we worked the same hours. All they saved was about 20 minutes on the way home, as they were on the move whilst I was still waiting for the bus.

I have even been to interviews where it has been stated that it is essential for the prospective employee to have a car to drive in, just to stick it in the car park all day, due to the misguided notion that it is impossible to be reliable when travelling by public transport. Although they probably also carried Margaret Thatcher's words that anyone using a bus after the age of 30 is a failure somewhere deep in their psyche.

You can't have your electricity cut off without a huge set of stages to go through first. And if someone depends on it to live (oxygen, CPAP, dialysis) then they can't cut it off at all.


The problem with the DDA is where there is not actually a need to travel through the day, and they are specifying that there must be a car just to get into the car park, is that they are expressly excluding everyone with a medical condition which precludes driving when it is unnecessary for the job - for example, blindness or epilepsy.

I used to travel between hospital sites during the day for jobs. Once I got to each place, I was indoors working, so it didn't matter to them how I got there, as long as I was there. It took them 6 months to realise I caught buses, tubes and trains to get to various sites, and only because I refused their staff parking permit.

I used to be surrounded by people who couldn't imagine what it was like to catch a bus, that, despite the fact their children were little porkers, they drove them to school because the poor darlings couldn't manage a mile long walk uphill with the rest of the kids who came by bus. Where I live now, people walk or catch buses. Yes, it is a more central position, but only by a short distance.

It can be done, and in the context of the original thread where someone couldn't afford the repayments on their car, was a reasonable response; you can't afford the car, well don't have one then.

nickyhutch

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

You're still thinking from the point of view of a driver imagining managing without a car as opposed to someone who doesn't have one in the first place. There are obviously some jobs where transport is an absolute necessity but there are many more where people just think it's so.

Many jobs for careers advisers (one of my careers) state that a car is a requirement but I managed perfectly well without one, just as did another CA in one of my offices.

That's great for you, but honestly, mine COULD NOT be done without a car. Why can't you just accept that?

nickyhutch

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

But to say that it is impossible to hold down a job or manage children without personal transport is erroneous.

Nobody's saying that - I'm saying SOME jobs make that impossible. I'm also saying walking kids to a childminder at, say, 6am, to spend 2.5 hours travelling to work, then not being able to collect them from the childminder til, say, 7pm because of time spend travelling on public transport, is hardly conducive to a good family life. It's not JUST about "can it be done?" - it has to be about "how will this impact on my life?" too.

andrealm

Why do I have a strong suspicion that nearly everyone who thinks travelling by public transport is always a practical option lives in London or another large city?;)

ceridwen

GobbledyGook wrote: »

GlasweJen - I don't know about the law, but I know my contract states that I must have access to transport between sites. I suppose if I couldn't drive I'd have to do the taxi thing, but it wouldn't leave much money to live on!

Actually if employers are the people requiring the job to be done between more than one site then it is the EMPLOYERS responsibility to ensure that this can be done (or re-arrange the job so that this requirement is no longer there). The way things stand at present - many employers rely on the employees subsidising them by this expectation that the employee will have a car. If no-one HAD private cars - then employers would have to stop expecting this "handout of help" from their employees and take on their responsibilities themselves.

I know its not an easy set-up in our current Society. Even at the low level of income I earn I have noticed employers stating in their adverts that "own transport will be necessary" and I've thought "Dream on Sunshine - on the wages you are offering..just how do you think anyone can afford a car?" and ignored the advert concerned and kept looking for another job.

Its harder for people in jobs with salaries that are high enough that employers will expect that the person has probably decided - of THEMSELVES - to have a car anyway. So - I appreciate its harder for some people to put their foot down and say to the employer "You want it - so you pay for it".

I have been astonished to even notice some jobs that are both part-time and NMW level expecting "own transport" (eg cleaning jobs on industrial estates that arent suitably served by public transport). So - in my "If ever I'm desperate - I suppose I could possibly do a cleaning job temporarily" moods I still think "Well - I've seen some cleaning firms like that using their own minibuses to get staff to work. So thats what they would have to do then - or they'll soon find they don't get anyone applying for their jobs".

Oldernotwiser

GobbledyGook wrote: »

Maybe once a fortnight or so? Sometimes you can go weeks and weeks and then sometimes you get 2 or 3 urgents in a week.

I think the biggest thing for someone in my job would be that I work on one site in the morning and one in the afternoon. I finish just as the children go for lunch and I'm back on again an hour later in the second place. That gives me 10 minutes for getting organised, 15 minutes to move site, 30 minutes to have lunch and 5 minutes to get the bits and bobs out at the second place.

When I used to have to travel between sites at lunchtime I'd eat my lunch in the taxi or go without. You have to be flexible.

Oldernotwiser

nickyhutch wrote: »

That's great for you, but honestly, mine COULD NOT be done without a car. Why can't you just accept that?

And you're missing my point!

You've made certain life choices based on running a car. If you didn't drive, those choices (where you live, where you work, where you shop etc.) would be different and you'd be able to manage.

By the way, I only learnt to drive 10 years ago but I still try to make choices based on being without a car, because you never know when it's going to be off the road. I know now how easy it is to become dependent on having a car and I strive to retain my independence - but I'm not denying the convenience.

Oldernotwiser

andrealm wrote: »

Why do I have a strong suspicion that nearly everyone who thinks travelling by public transport is always a practical option lives in London or another large city?;)

I have no idea why you think this. Although I drive now, I've worked quite easily as a non driver on the Isle of Wight, in Shrewsbury, Hertfordshire, Windsor and Surrey. I've even managed perfectly well in rural South Shropshire, although my husband ran a car when we lived there.