Silver surfer help please.

benroles

Mike,

Whether the end retailer sees your card details very much depends on their implementation. I design and build websites and larger companies tend to do the processing 'themselves'; that is they capture the card details, expiry dates etc. and use a bank gateway to verify you have the funds. Ultimately though they DO see your details (at least people within that company with the right security permissions etc.). However, many smaller companies completely outsource the payment side of things so you use their shopping cart but you actually get passed to a seperate site (like worldpay) for the credit card processing. This is because setting up full-blown credit card handling is difficult but there are companies who will handle it all for you. So actually many smaller companies even though they accept credit cards don't see your details.

The key thing is though if you go in to any 'real' shop and use your card dodgy employees could still take note of your card details so you are in no different position.

Verified by Visa makes it harder for them to use those details though as they have the card details but no password.

Paypal as you rightly point out don't pass on any of the card details.

With all this though if a person really wants to defraud you they will find a way. The answer is to make it so hard that they decide to pick on someone else. So different PINs for your cards, not writing down passwords etc. all helps. It's kind of like a burglar choosing between the locked, alarmed home and the one that's empty with the windows open. I know which I'd chance!

Hope that helps.

B.

Eliza_2

Mikex wrote: »

I have not been so concerned about the individual transactions going wrong, goods not arriving, incorrect goods etc. I am more concerned about giving my card details away in order to purchase £2.20 worth of goods and then noticing random amounts disappearing from my account.

Mike

Other than on here and media reports etc, why don't you ask around your friends to find out how often this does actually happen. On this website, and others that are similar, and consumer tv programmes as well as other media, you only usually hear about things that go wrong and dishonest dealings. In non-internet everyday life problems can come about for example when you buy petrol with your debit card, when you use a cheque to pay for stuff and so on. But how often really does it happen? The potential is there all the time, but it's never happened to me nor anyone in my family/immediate friends. It's rare - ask in your family. And it's rare online too. The chances of it happening to you are pretty slim!

Go ahead, enjoy buying your plumbing fittings and valves, use your debit card - there's no point in a credit card for those sorts of amounts- and live a little! If I was a betting person, I would be prepared to bet that you will never, ever lose money fraudulently because of shopping online!

I work with 'silver surfers' and they have all, to a woman/man embraced the idea of the internet and that they can now see and buy specialist items that they would have had to trail to big cities to get otherwise.

And after you've done your shopping, please try to avoid checking your bank account every five minutes 'just in case'!!!

Liz

Mikex

Thanks again.

Just to respond to a couple of points in the last few posts.

Thanks Auntie Dolly but I suspect the average criminal would know where they could use the card details armed with only the card numbers. Lots of web sites I guess.

Ref payments being processed by third parties. This is something I was unaware of. On a couple of occasions when I have given my card details to an online trader I have first discovered the name of the trader (assuming it to be their real name) and googled it to discover if they have made any court appearances etc. I now find I need to google the names of the people working for worldpay. It gets worse.

Ref asking friends. My mate Rob thinks I am off my head putting my card details online. My brother in law had his card stolen and before it was noticed a substantial amount of money (about £800 had been spent). On this occasion the bank reimbursed him.

Having thought about this for all of 5 minutes could we not think of a better way?

In this technological world would it not be possible to pay for goods online and simultaneously send an electronic message to our bank accounts advising the account there will be a payment made of a specific amount. If the payment was requested twice or payments other than advised were requested the bank account would politely decline.

Mike

Eliza_2

Mikex wrote: »

Thanks again.

Just to respond to a couple of points in the last few posts.

Thanks Auntie Dolly but I suspect the average criminal would know where they could use the card details armed with only the card numbers. Lots of web sites I guess.

Ref payments being processed by third parties. This is something I was unaware of. On a couple of occasions when I have given my card details to an online trader I have first discovered the name of the trader (assuming it to be their real name) and googled it to discover if they have made any court appearances etc. I now find I need to google the names of the people working for worldpay. It gets worse.

Ref asking friends. My mate Rob thinks I am off my head putting my card details online. My brother in law had his card stolen and before it was noticed a substantial amount of money (about £800 had been spent). On this occasion the bank reimbursed him.

Having thought about this for all of 5 minutes could we not think of a better way?

In this technological world would it not be possible to pay for goods online and simultaneously send an electronic message to our bank accounts advising the account there will be a payment made of a specific amount. If the payment was requested twice or payments other than advised were requested the bank account would politely decline.

Mike

What???!!! And give the banks even more excuses to hike up charges for whatever and whenever they like?

I'm sorry your family/friends have had bad experiences. As that is the case I'm surprised you're asking on here really. Incidentally you're not putting your card details online, you're sending them to a trader who you are trusting to send you something by return and who in turn is trusting you to pay. If you want to put them online, feel free to enter your card no, expiry date and csc number here:...........

Thanks - if you did that, I wonder how many people would actually take advantage of it?.

In your shoes, I'd be driving to the place that sells the things that you need, collecting them and paying with cash. Would that not be easier and less time consuming than all this worry and research? I very much approve of doing things in that way, the less dependency on financial institutions the better but I wouldn't do it because I distrust the whole world and see a fraudster round every corner, that's really sad. You'd save delivery charges, be able to see exactly what you're getting and might even get a little discount for cash. And the trader won't have to worry about whether your cheque will bounce or your card be declined or whether you will give him loads of negs on ebay or a poor review on other sites. Win win all round!

I'm almost beginning to feel this is a bit of a windup now, all this about googling the names of people working for world pay. Ridiculous. It only gets worse because you are letting it. I think you need a hobby or something!;)

I'm unsubscribing from this thread now, it's getting a bit silly.

Liz

ElkyElky

If a fraudster is going to rob you of your millions, trust me, he'll find a way to do so. Stop bloody worrying and live your life with the enjoyment of the internet - or don't use the internet at all. Probably best you stick to old fashion methods, all the worrying and stress of guessing whether you've been conned or not can't be good for anyones health.

Which ever method you choose to purchase your things, you'll never be safe. If you're carrying cash around, someone can easily knock you to the ground and steal it and the same goes for shopping on the internet. Life is one big risk, embrace it or hide away.

WorldPay is owned and ran by a bank, RBS - hence why they are pretty safe to hand your details over to. When shopping online, look for the gold padlock symbol on your browser and if you see it, you'll know that the website your shopping on is safe and secure.

Eydon

Agree with ElkyElky.

Mikex - I've been using credit cards for over twenty years and I use them online several times a week. In all that time I've only ever suffered fraud on two occasions and both times the card companies sorted it very quickly. As long as you keep an eye on your statements (and even better on your recent transactions via online account access) then you can spot dodgy transactions straight away and the problem gets fixed quickly.

Mikex

I do make virtually all my purchases with cash locally but partly as a result of the internet some things just are not available locally. My nearest shop of any kind is 13 miles and the nearest larger shops are 25 miles. Three of my recent purchases of imperial sized plumbing parts and A4 stainless steel products have been sent from Birmingham (I live in Yorkshire) and Ireland.

I will continue as I am being very cautious when I shop online and only making purchases when I have failed locally.

I do feel there will be new more secure & safer means of paying for goods online in the future, I cannot imagine things will stay as they are forever. When these safer methods arrive online shopping might just become acceptable to cautious Yorkshiremen!

Mike

tellmeitsfriday

I estimate that over the past 5-10 years I have made approx. 1000 online shopping transactions, from tiny little craft stores, via ebay, to supermarket, amazon, play etc

In all that time, it's gone wrong once. That was when Amazon's database was hacked, and when the criminal tested my card, HSBC saw it, refused it, called me to check and cancelled my card all within ten minutes.

While the thieves and fraudsters are cunning and coniving, the software and intelligence used by the bank is also pretty hot.

I feel happier ordering online than I when I go to the cash machine, take out money and store it in my pocket. If I am scammed online, it's just money, which will hopefully be refunded. If I am mugged for real cash, they could hurt me


However, you are obviously wary of online security, and if this is the way you feel, then don't do it. I don't like swimming, so I don't do it. We have choices, so execute your right to make the choice

I have a dad a bit like you, and he regularly contacts me to ask me to buy things for him... this is because he "doesn't like using his card online. It's fine that I do though


Enjoy your metal pipey bits, where ever you get them from xx

Mikex

Well it looks like I have just encountered my first online rouge trader!

When I made my original post I had ordered a few bits. Since then I have ordered one or two more. You will not be surprised I have experienced different levels of service.

I ordered from righton fasteners last Sunday. They obviously despatched Monday & I received my goods Tuesday. You can't get better than that!

I have also placed 4 orders with boltmeup. Although 3 have arrived without incident and the other is not yet overdue one of the orders received is wrong. I ordered M10 nuts and they have supplied M12. The outstanding order is for the M10's. This is not the main problem. I have sent boltmeup multiple requests for them to supply me with invoices/VAT invoices for my goods but my requests are obviously falling on deaf ears. Most infuriating!. I have contacted ebay hoping they can sort it.

I have also ordered from Hamiltons Gas Products in Ireland who advise they sent my goods at the beginning of last week. I contacted them on Friday to ask when I should expect delivery. They advised it should arrive on Saturday. It did not. I emailed them and they phoned on Monday and said they would phone again on Tuesday but they never did. In fact I have emailed them every day to advise them of non delivery but have heard nothing from them since Monday. I think they are hoping I will go away. I did pay by PayPal and have entered a dispute in the resolution centre in an attempt to resolve this issue. I understand if they still do not live up to their promise on their web site of providing 100% customer satisfaction and refund me or send the goods the next stage is to make a claim through PayPal. Could it be assumed that PayPal will refund my money if Hamiltons refuse to do so?

So to summarise my online experience so far is dreadful.

I look forward to advice ref the PayPal claim.

Thanks

Mike