Ring Fenced post help required

daisyf_2

Wonder if someone can give me some advice as i am being given conflicting information.

I am currently in the middle of the 90 day consultancy and at the end of this there is one job which has been ring fenced for two people including me. The post is at the same scale as my old post which has vanished and is a new job title and a new 9 page!! job description.

My question(s) is..... do I have to apply for the post? If I don't - can I get redundancy (this is what I want), or if i dont apply am I effectively handing in my notice. I don't want the new job but what is best to do particularly when I want redundancy.

Other colleagues in different departments have managed to not apply for posts and got redundancy but it seems to be different terms for each department. I'm currently off sick and in my view i cannot do the new job as it is huge with a massive remit.

any help is very gratefullly received. xx

Emmzi

if you aren't sure I'd honestly put in a terrible application that they'd have to be mad to acceptt while ticking the "I'd like VR please" box.

getmore4less

Think up every reason you can why you believe the roll is not a suitable alternative.

Then it might become a play it by ear to see which way they are going to go with this.

Do you know who is making the desisions on this new position.
Does the other person want the job that might make it easy
Can you think of any others at risk that could od the job and should be included in the pool get them to apply

Create as much competition as you can

If most of the main terms pay holidays hours locations etc are the same it will be down to how close it is to the current roll.

If it includes a load of new tasks you can't do then that should be enough

Start with(if they ask) I did not apply because I can't do it so I don't think it is a suitable alternative, but they may fight if they think you can do the role or are prepared to consult and change the roll to make it suitable so need good reasons to reject it.

Actualy since they have made it known what the job, your part in the consultation process is to reject it now on the grounds of not being a suitable alternative, you could leave it a bit but not sure how not taking part in consultation looks to an ET should it go that far.

It could be they are trying it on first and are going to be prepared to cut the job back if pushed. Think of the things that are esential that you can't do to make it harder forthem to adjust the roll

Should not be too hard to fail an interview/selection process as long as there are others

If they insist you can do the job counter with if you make me take the roll and I fail to perform in the areas I identified I want them specificaly excluded from any possible disiplinary in the future . They may counter with offers of training.

Early days but some companies it becomes a game of who knows the rules and sometimes a bit of bluffing.

daisyf_2

thanks for the helpful replies - i personally think the job should be another grade up but it has been classed on the same scale.

As you say it is a good idea to go through the job spec and state why I am not up to the job - they also hinted that the job could disappear within the consultancy period which is a bit of blackmail - no problem with me as I don't want it

I've also been quite seriously ill and not sure I am up to job tasks and pressure - would that be another reason to state why I am not taking the role = what do you think?

Any other tips would be very helpful....

thank you and didnt realise this wonderful site had a forum until today - glad I found it and thank you

getmore4less

So there is no job yet.

I would focus on making sure all the details of the package are correct.

Work notice, garden leave, PILON
Redundancy amount and service correct
Holidays paing accrued holidays(they accrue while sick)

Time off to look for work/training
What support are thye providing

I would avoid using the sickness as reason to be made redundant they could convert to capability dismisal with nothing

herbily

I think the fact that you're currently off sick makes it more difficult for them to offer you redundancy - if as an employer you make someone redundant while sick, it's easier for them to sue and claim discrimination. So once you're back, you might find your employer's prepared to consider voluntary redundancy.

As others have said, worst case scenario, you produce a rubbish application form and pray there's nothing else suitable;)

daisyf_2

thanks guys really helpful. I will be going back to work within the 90 days.

there is a job description which has been produced and agreed through HR but nothing will happen on that until after the 90 days is over.

I have got my redundancy figure although they keep stating that redundancy is not a privilege After they give me my letter i will have to work the notice.

Garden leave has now been suspended so after the 90 days has ended I intend to get my house in order and do some training and job searching. I do have a job to go to which will wait for me.

Think I am going to keep asking for redundancy as lots of others have got it - it would help them out as they need to get rid of one person. Knowing my luck if I put in a rubbish application I will end up getting the job.

sorry another question - if i put in a rubbish application as it is ring fenced they have to interview me - if I dont turn up for the interview is that another form of dismissal on my part.

thanks so much for all your help and I have used this site for ages not seen the forum........

zzzLazyDaisy

A couple of questions....

1) have you worked for the company for more than two years?

2) Is it the case that

a) the role that the position that you were previously employed to do no longer exists under the new structure and this job that you and your colleague have been invited to apply for is a different job with different duties and responsibilities OR

b) there were previously two identical jobs held by you and your colleague, which have now been reduced to one, which you and your colleague are invited to apply for.

The two situations may sound the same but in law they are different.

daisyf_2

Thanks lazydaisy for the reply. To answer the questions have worked for the company for over ten years.

The two roles do not exist in the new team structure and in our opinions it is basically our two jobs pulled together when you get under the language and cleverly worded job spec. Quite a bit of the work in the new job spec we use to do and it was taken away from us six months ago or we asked to be involved with the projects and they didnt want us too.

However, the management view it is a completely different job with a different job title and different duties and responsibilities. The job spec is massive compared to my old role

Can you explain the situations you are thinking of.

thank you xx

getmore4less

From what was said it looks like a new job so it will be down to is it a suitable alternative.


there is a job description which has been produced and agreed through HR but nothing will happen on that until after the 90 days is over.

I think they should be doing the selection as part of consultation, that what consultation is for to reduce the impact of the redundancies.
Identify and agree the new rolls, agree the selection criteria, score people etc.

At the end of consultation or very soon after you should either have something alternative or get your termination notices.

if i put in a rubbish application as it is ring fenced they have to interview me - if I dont turn up for the interview is that another form of dismissal on my part

Try to avoid this approach, stick with the its not suitable I can't apply

I do have a job to go to which will wait for me.

Keep this very quiet DO NOT tell anyone.

Also look up counter notice.

This could be a way to stop them finding out they are stuck and withdraw the redundancy during the notice periodif you think that might be a risk.
(counter notice is also an option that comes with its own risks but in law it is not a resignation you are still terminated due to redundancy)

daisyf_2

Thanks for this - the only thing we have in the consultation so far - is been given the new proposed job spec and been told why we have been put at risk - which the excuse was an absolute load of rubbish (to keep it polite and had a union rep there. We have put some questions to the union and also have asked if the job spec is at the right scale.

We're in the middle of the consultation and we will be given our redundancy letters as we have a meeting booked with HR and our manager on the end of the consultation and then have to either apply for the new post or seek an alternative and work our notice.

I am certainly not going to tell anyone about the job waiting for me - after what has happened in this circumstances I am certainly not telling them at all.

Can you explain counter notice more fully please - as I have not heard of that before - thank you so much and you have all been so helpful.