Why so much prejudice against those in debt?

kdenty

Deeperblue wrote: »

Where do such negative attitudes come from? Am I blamed for the current economical problems in the country? Are people with savings resentful that the BOE decision not to increase the BR benefits me but not them?
:think:

Maybe they are worried that we are contagious?? :rotfl:

FTW

BlueBanana wrote: »

I think it's the same thing as unemployed people being labelled "scroungers" by some. I've been unemployed and my job is currently "at risk", so I know it isn't like that at all.

Best not to go on to the DT boards, then. Judgemental crap is commonplace there.

If you want meaningful constructive advice, avoid the DT boards like the plague - you'll just get self-righteous, unconstructive vitriol in spades.

If, God help you, you create a post in DT asking for help to a problem, it also pays not to reveal too much about yourself.

And certainly don't answer inevitable irrelevant questions that pry too much into your personal life or have nothing to do with what you originally posted about.

There are long-term posters who still make that mistake even now.

BlueBanana wrote: »

I reckon everyone should be a little bit more understanding in these really tough times because the recession is going to affect everyone in some way.

I find this site to be probably the most overly-judgemental of the lot, with an over-abundance of those who give out wrong advice or can't help belittling the poster because it's 'you got yourself into this mess'.

But, you do still get excellent advice provided the right people get to see the thread, and it's as good as any other site for that.

There are others like Legal Beagles and Consumer Action Group which are a lot more focused with the problem in hand.

But the latter, I walked off once they started letting Lowell (a notorious DCA) create posts imploring users to phone them, and then refused to take these posts down.

FuzzyCub

NeverAgain wrote: »

The attitude problem is with bankrupts who get away with not paying their debts.

People who struggle to repay every penny they owe do not like to see others not paying.

I am in neither category, but am a little uncomfortable with the attitude shown by a minority of the bankrupts and would-be bankrupts on here.

The twisted logic of 'it's only the bank/credit card I owe money to so it doesn't matter' is widespread.

I find your post contradictory -a "minority of bankrupts" with a "widespread twisted logic"

Bankruptcy is not about "getting away with not paying" debts. It's a legal process to manage debts and that's all. No better or worse than DMPs F&F settlements or any other option.

Whilst the debt is rarely repaid in full, the bankrupt will frequently make some payments, a contribution from surplus income or sale of other assets perhaps.

My intention was always to repay what I owed, my circumstances changed and that meant it wasn't a realistic option anymore. I used the legal process of bankruptcy to draw a line under the circumstances and misfortunes of my past, and I feel no shame in that.

My credit providers understood the risk associated with "bad debt" they built protection into their business, both my creditors and I were happy with the agreements and risks involved when I brought money from them. So there is an element of truth in the "it doesn't matter".

Personal bankruptcy is no worse than when a business realises it is no longer viable and "goes bust". Do you think the directors are overly worried that Mrs. Miggins has paid in full for her order but the company will no longer be shipping that order?

There will be consequences of my bankruptcy that I will have to live with for the rest of my life and we haven't even touched the emotional cost of debt/bankruptcy.

Being in debt is not a crime, everybody dealing with their debt should feel proud of themselves -whatever option or process they choose to use.

"Walk a mile in someone else's shoes..." and all that

thechippy

I’ll give you my take on this…

I think that the people who borrow with no intention of paying it back are rare.
Likewise, those who are looking for a loophole to not pay.
These are the people that most take a dislike to.

Some people I agree, are a bit reckless and don’t think. They borrow to the stage where they can’t make the monthly repayments in full anymore, but it’s not actually on purpose / premeditated.

The vast majority that I have met however, are victims of circumstance and bad luck.
These people should be helped and not judged, as should the above.

I will always be on here trying to help others, as I despise the lending institutions.
I despise them as they are guilty for irresponsible lending for one. You need to understand how the banking system works.

They WANT you to borrow money, as money is created through debt. The money does not exist until you sign the agreement, which is a promise to pay. This then becomes an asset to the bank and increases their bottom line. It would take me ages to go into this, but it was the greed of the bankers that caused the recession.

I’ve noticed that some disagree with going the cca route.
The banks had the best legal minds available, along with as much funding as required to get their agreements correct and in line with the cca 1974, but could simply not be bothered. They seem to think that they are above the law! It’s now come back to bite them, and rightly so. They will use every word in the agreement against you as and when it suits them - you can do the same and fair play!!

The lenders always say you should contact them should you have financial issues, but then fail to give you any understanding / help anyway.
In fact, they seem to make it as difficult as possible to clear the debt. They often refuse to freeze interest, your monthly payment offer is always too low and then they add as many charges and as much interest on top as they can!!
You end up banging your head against a brick wall and so use the cca route against them.

Should you be moralistic?

---

Hmmm!

Be aware of the following;

Q.
Why do the lenders add so many more charges / interest when you get in trouble with the account?
A.
It’s totally on purpose. They artificially inflate the debt as much as possible before they sell it on to a dca.
They sell the debt for a fraction of the balance, so the more they inflate it, the more they get.
The outstanding balance becomes a tax loss, so again, the more the debt is artificially inflated, the more they save themselves against tax.

Q.
But the bank has lost money if I don’t pay them back - others will pay for this in higher interest rates.
A.
The banks lose sod all if you don’t repay the balance. Look at the above.
Also, take into account that in all likelyhood, you’ve already been making payments for years. They’ve probably already had the capital and a lot of interest back.

Also, look up “fractional reserve banking” and “money created from debt”

The whole lending institution is rotten to the core, along with dca’s and I for one, will always be on here trying to help others fight them.

KiKi

I agree with the vast majority on here that it's those with no intention of paying it back that unfortunately people will often remember.

I have no debt, but I try not to judge - I only get annoyed when people are desperately in the poo and insist on keeping their £50 a month gym membership, their £80 a month Sky package and the £200 a month because their children just can't possibly do without the latest DS games. Those people are rare, thankfully! And I do come on the DFW board and offer helpful advice, too.

But one thing I also find interesting (with specific reference to the OP's first post) is that I sometimes find I'm judged because I don't have any debt - by people who do have it! A number of times I've offered helpful, non-judgemental, friendly advice and replies have been along the lines of "well it's alright for you to suggest I cut my internet package, but this is all I have. It's alright for you, you can afford to go out so you know nothing about my situation". Which I find equally as astonishing as those on other boards judging people *with* debt.

So it can work both ways!

Most of the boards I post on are lovely. Grabbit, Marriage and Families, Shopping. The Employment Board is usually fine, and the Credit Card forum is much, much better than it used to be, IMO. I also find that if a board is considered judgemental, it's not the whole board that acts that way, but the small, vocal minority - who are also vocal about everything else on every other board. And just as those without debt remember the people who refuse to give up their Sky package, those with debt will always remember those who are the most critical.

KiKi

thechippy

Nicely said...

NeverAgain_2

...I find your post contradictory -a "minority of bankrupts" with a "widespread twisted logic"...

Two separate statements.

A minority of bankrupts take the mick out of system, and the rest of us.

Many people, not just bankrupts, regard credit card debt as unimportant, or not as bad as owing money to a person and not paying.

It's the same twisted logic which allows theft by making an inflated or entirely fictitious house insurance claim.

Red_Doe

Lots of people will admit it isn`t, generally, those with debt through no fault of their own (unforeseen circumstances, illness, etc) that get to them, but those who wrack up debts with no intention of repaying or even trying to, that annoys them. And that`s fine.
What I have a problem with is that until you get to know the person in debt, how can you know how they got there, and what their intentions are? Yet, despite that, many do make snap judgements and treat people in debt according to their own judgemental natures, which can often be cruel and inujurous at a time when many folks in debt are already at the lowest ebb in their lives, and struggling not only financially but emotionally. The last thing they need is someone to sit in judgement over them.
Not denying there are chancers out there who will take anyone or any company for whatever they can and do it with a happy grin and an "F you mate" but all folks in debt aren`t like that and shouldn`t be judged automatically do.

mmmsnow

chesky369 wrote: »

But every now and again you get a complete idiot who doesn’t really see why he should change his lifestyle (or her, etc) and you know they’ve only come to you because they’ve come up against a problem they can’t see their way around and as soon as you’ve sorted that out (bailiffs, notice for possession of property, etc.) they’ll disappear for another couple of years and turn up again when their backs are up against the wall again.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I would add that there's a small minority of people in debt who come onto these boards to try and get out of paying what they rightly owe. I see running up a debt with no intention of paying it back as theft and these are the people that give those who are working to clear debt (sometimes in very difficult circumstances) a bad name.

I come from a family where debt was taboo. You saved for what you wanted, paid off the credit card in full each month (my dad encouraged me to get a credit card, so that I could have a credit rating and then warned me never to use it!). I'm lucky to have had financial education from my parents and, touch wood, to have never been in a situation where I've really needed that credit card.

I have friends, though, who are hard-working, intelligent people but who have been brought up with an attitude of "buy now, worry about it later". I think it's due, in part, to the attitude of the parents when it comes to treating the children. One of my best friends comes from a relatively poor family (her father is disabled and unable to work and her mother has always worked doing whatever she could) and when I hear about the money her parents spent on them for birthdays and Christmases, I'm astounded. Every year would be a parade of the latest football strips, games consoles and designer clothes. My parents are middle class and look very mean by comparison but my dad would never let presents for his family jeopardise our standard of living.

We're living in an increasingly consumer oriented society so what we really need to do is to tell our children that they don't need an endless stream of things to be happy and that, by saving for something, it makes you appreciate it more when you get it. How many times have you impulse bought something only to immediately regret it?

mmmsnow

KiKi wrote: »

I have no debt, but I try not to judge - I only get annoyed when people are desperately in the poo and insist on keeping their £50 a month gym membership, their £80 a month Sky package and the £200 a month because their children just can't possibly do without the latest DS games. Those people are rare, thankfully! And I do come on the DFW board and offer helpful advice, too.

Some people can justify anything to themselves. I have a friend who is in debt but who thinks nothing of buying a new Xbox game each week (£40 a time) because that'll mean he's saving money by not going out that weekend (which would cost £100+).