No Section 48 on Tenancy Agreement

theartfullodger

Phone Shelter 0808 800 4444 but expect a wait

BitterAndTwisted

Instead of obsessing about this damned Section 48 and elegant points of law, in your position I would take all steps necessary to ensure that your rent is paid to the landlord. By whatever means, Section 48 or no Section 48. It's all very well other people advising you that unless you have an address at which to serve notices the rent is not due, but you are the one running the risk of all kinds of potential nastiness if you fall into arrears and your landlord fails to appreciate the significance of Section 48s and the lack thereof. Your landlord sounds extremely *ahem* "unconventional" and may choose to rely on equally unconventional ways to persuade you to pay the rent. It isn't necessarily a risk I would be prepared to take with that sort of person.

Have you checked the information about the property on the Land Registry site?

jelliedeel

Fair point Bitter perhaps you are right and I should just let this go. I am suppose to be having a meeting with LL within 2 weeks because he lives out of my area and I will pay him rent due then and try to arrange with him another way to pay rent. So now I have to decide whether to proceed with action against him for not having protected my deposit and I will obviously have to phone him when I want to give notice unless he wants me out before I choose to go so then he can serve notice as he has at least got an address.

Just wondered about the whole thing really as I thought it was an interesting case if you like that I am being hassled for rent that would appear not to be lawfully due and whether it put me in a strong position or not. Cest la vie, let it go.

BitterAndTwisted

Eh, the lack of the deposit-protection could work in your favour IF your landlord tries to regain possession at some point. No deposit-protection equals no enforceable Section21 Notice. This will not protect you from possible eviction due to rent-arrears however.

theartfullodger

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

This will not protect you from possible eviction due to rent-arrears however.

er... without name & address of LL then rent is not due so there can be no rent arrears.

Jellieeel has a more-than legitimate justification for wanting to know name&address: How else does he know he is paying the right guy??

Jellieeel - please 'phone Shelter, 0808 800 4444 and discuss this point with them. It's free to all (as should the 'phone call be), just you may have a wait as they are an overloaded charity.. see...
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/how_we_can_help/housing_advice_helpline

Shelter provides a free, national telephone advice line staffed by trained housing advisers. We have helped thousands of people, from finding them a place to sleep to suggesting how to handle mortgage arrears.
Ring 0808 800 4444

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BitterAndTwisted

If it is that clear-cut (and I'm not arguing that it isn't) how do we explain why three different "legal people" appear to have "closed ranks" and not given the OP an unequivocal answer?

It sounds to me like this particular landlord may not be the type to be trifled with arguing about elegant legal definitions. They are under the radar and receiving cash from unidentifiable intermediaries. I wouldn't want to be putting my head above this particular parapet unless I had a really compelling reason to.

jelliedeel

They are legal people Bitter one was an independent solicitor the other two are ladies working for an organisation that I was sent to by CAB. It would just seem that these people can't determine what i do about not having this S48 they haven't even offered to approach the LL for me only with regard to my unprotected deposit are they or am I missing the point here. There have been cases of successful claims for rent not being payble in court prior to a S48 being served that is all I was trying to ask, in other words if I don't pay for 8 weeks then he wants me out surely that is my claim because lawfully at the moment he can't demand rent anyway?

G_M

1) Check who owns the property. Is it the same person as the 'landlord'?
2) When you meet LL in two weeks ask
a) for a means to pay rent eg sort code/bank account for Standing Order or direct payment to his bank. If he insists on cash I'd be inclined to say you're scared to have that kind of cash around for security reasons. If you MUST pay cash, get a receipt each time.
b)Ask for an address. Say you need it fo HB or tax reasons. Whatever. It's less antagonistic than saying "It's my right under S48"!
3) Ignore the deposit issue till the points above are sorted. One thing at a time! Once you have an address, you can write to him later about the deposit!

If possible, have a friend with you when you meet the LL.
a) for moral support/courage and
b) as a witness

G_M

jelliedeel wrote: »

They are legal people Bitter one was an independent solicitor the other two are ladies working for an organisation that I was sent to by CAB. It would just seem that these people can't determine what i do about not having this S48 they haven't even offered to approach the LL for me only with regard to my unprotected deposit are they or am I missing the point here. There have been cases of successful claims for rent not being payble in court prior to a S48 being served that is all I was trying to ask, in other words if I don't pay for 8 weeks then he wants me out surely that is my claim because lawfully at the moment he can't demand rent anyway?

If he took you to court to get a possession order for non payment of rent, you would go to court and
a) explain the S48 situation and
b) have ALL the rent owed in your pocket, get it out, and say "Look here's the rent - I've kept it because there was no address but I'm happy to pay in full now. Oh, and please Mr judge can you tell my LL to give me his address".

No problem.

BitterAndTwisted

You've received free and in my opinion accurate advice and opinions on here but what no-one can predict is whether someone like your landlord actually knows or cares about legal niceties such as Section 48s, Section 8s or Section 21s and their validity.

You can take the position that your rent is not due and payable as long as you don't have the landlord's address to serve notices etcetera but that position could be a risky one. Someone who flies under the radar and has no traceable income from the property is not necessarily going to be one who deals with your tenancy or ending it in conventionally legal ways.

You decide because it's your risk. It's not necessarily one I would take lightly is all I am saying. And what else I am saying is that you should make urgent plans to get the hell out of there.