Can you view an old will that has since been changed?

Nicki

It is quite difficult to challenge a will on the basis the testator was of unsound mind. The presumption will be that they were, and it will be for your OH to prove to a high standard that she was not. Being ill or frail isn't going to be enough, you will need to show mental health or dementia issues established at the time the will was made, and even then it may be found that the new will was made in a period of lucidity.

However, assuming you do get over that hurdle, you need to find the old will which is not going to be easy. Do you know how long ago the new will was made? Solicitors are only required to keep old paperwork for 6 years, so if it was longer ago than this, the old will is probably long gone. If the old will can't be found, and granny is declared to be of unsound mind, then your OH and his sister would inherit 1/6 each of the estate under the law of intestacy, so it would be a safer bet for you for the old will not to be found, as it might genuinely leave the estate to be split only between surviving children.

Do you know how much the estate is likely to be worth, because leaving aside the fact that your OH will almost certainly destroy his relationship with his aunt and uncle, the costs of a protracted battle to show granny was of unsound mind might not be worth the financial candle.

patchwork_cat

Nicki wrote: »

It is quite difficult to challenge a will on the basis the testator was of unsound mind. The presumption will be that they were, and it will be for your OH to prove to a high standard that she was not. Being ill or frail isn't going to be enough, you will need to show mental health or dementia issues established at the time the will was made, and even then it may be found that the new will was made in a period of lucidity.

However, assuming you do get over that hurdle, you need to find the old will which is not going to be easy. Do you know how long ago the new will was made? Solicitors are only required to keep old paperwork for 6 years, so if it was longer ago than this, the old will is probably long gone. If the old will can't be found, and granny is declared to be of unsound mind, then your OH and his sister would inherit 1/6 each of the estate under the law of intestacy, so it would be a safer bet for you for the old will not to be found, as it might genuinely leave the estate to be split only between surviving children.

Do you know how much the estate is likely to be worth, because leaving aside the fact that your OH will almost certainly destroy his relationship with his aunt and uncle, the costs of a protracted battle to show granny was of unsound mind might not be worth the financial candle.

Surely a diagnosis of alzheimers would suffice. Did your grandma have a formal dx of alzheimers, OP? If so on what date and if the will was written after that date, then I would have thought there is a case to answer. I would hazard a guess that there will be very little relationship left with aunt and uncle now anyway, I doubt OP's husband will ever trust his aunt and uncle again. Leaving money to children and if a child predecases to grand children is quite normal.

kr15snw

SIL has just mentioned that grandma and grandpa did have a joint will which had the same wording as the old will we are trying to find. Am I right in thinking that grandpas will would be at the probate office as it was the will when he died.

We reckon they are looking at about 20k each (dh and sill) but it's more the principle at the moment as his aunt / uncle have completely turned on him and said some terrible things about his mum and late dad.

patchwork_cat

kr15snw wrote: »

SIL has just mentioned that grandma and grandpa did have a joint will which had the same wording as the old will we are trying to find. Am I right in thinking that grandpas will would be at the probate office as it was the will when he died.

We reckon they are looking at about 20k each (dh and sill) but it's more the principle at the moment as his aunt / uncle have completely turned on him and said some terrible things about his mum and late dad.

Yes and it looks as if the relationship with aunt and uncle have broken down anyway doesn't it.

scooby088

If the nan made another will then that would cancel any other will out, that was made leaving things to everyone else in the family. I know that my mom and dad made the same will, saying if me and my sister pre deceased my parents then other beneficiaries were named, maybe this was was the case with your dads will, and of course things change so why can't a will.

Nicki

You really need to get some legal advice about this. If granny and grandpa had mutual wills, then once grandpa died granny couldn't change hers. If it was just that they both had similar wills at one point, then granny could change hers.

As for patchwork cat's question, my understanding is that what is relevant is whether at the precise moment she signed the will was she lucid. It doesn't matter whether or not at other times during that period she had periods of dementia. It is complex and the burden will be on the OP's husband to prove was of unsound mind. This is another reason why OP will need detailed legal advice to unravel this. With the best will in the world soundbites on the internet are not going to be enough to enable them to deal with it on their own.

patchwork_cat

Nicki wrote: »

You really need to get some legal advice about this. If granny and grandpa had mutual wills, then once grandpa died granny couldn't change hers. If it was just that they both had similar wills at one point, then granny could change hers.

As for patchwork cat's question, my understanding is that what is relevant is whether at the precise moment she signed the will was she lucid. It doesn't matter whether or not at other times during that period she had periods of dementia. It is complex and the burden will be on the OP's husband to prove was of unsound mind. This is another reason why OP will need detailed legal advice to unravel this. With the best will in the world soundbites on the internet are not going to be enough to enable them to deal with it on their own.

It is my belief that the will has to state that it is a mutual will and not merely be written at the same time.

scooby088

Nicki wrote: »

You really need to get some legal advice about this. If granny and grandpa had mutual wills, then once grandpa died granny couldn't change hers. If it was just that they both had similar wills at one point, then granny could change hers.

As for patchwork cat's question, my understanding is that what is relevant is whether at the precise moment she signed the will was she lucid. It doesn't matter whether or not at other times during that period she had periods of dementia. It is complex and the burden will be on the OP's husband to prove was of unsound mind. This is another reason why OP will need detailed legal advice to unravel this. With the best will in the world soundbites on the internet are not going to be enough to enable them to deal with it on their own.

There is a statement at the beginning of every will saying i hereby revoke any other will, so i cant see why the other persons will be changed.

Best bet is just to contact the solicitor who is dealing with this matter.

flora48

When my husband and I made new wills two weeks ago the old ones were destroyed by the solicitor in front of us. So even if a previous will was discovered it would not carry any weight other than to prove that someone had changed their minds.

Nicki

patchwork_cat wrote: »

It is my belief that the will has to state that it is a mutual will and not merely be written at the same time.

Yes but it's not clear what OP meant by "joint wills". They may have been mutual which is why she needs both to see grandpa's and to get legal advice.

Scooby, if the wills were mutual then by law granny's can't be changed once grandpa died. If they weren't, then of course granny could change hers at any time, but if she wasn't of sound mind when she changed it, then the new will can be set aside.