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Where do I stand legally with pulling my son out of his nursery?

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Can I ask for a legal bod to help?

My son's private pre-school/nursery have just dropped a bomb shell all but one of their staff is leaving in a week. The owner is trying to sell the business and is looking at getting staff to take the nursery through to the new year.

My concern is that it is the staff that give him his stable environment, when they leave all is left is a shell of a building and a few toys and activities. He has such an attachment to the staff that having temporary staff to get to know, and then likely new staff again in the new year when the nursery is sold is going to be a huge upheaval for him. Also what happens if the nursery isn't successful in being sold, the owner is moving on, and it is run out of a church hall, so it could completely stop!

There is a another similar nursery nearby that is very stable and well respected, I would feel much better settling him in there right away, (they have a place for him, I have checked and they will squeeze him in for me as a favour) I would feel much better that he goes in to a stable environment, where he will only experience change once. If I leave him in the current nursery he will have teachers who will not know the set up, a new manager, as she is one of those leaving, so the whole ethos of the nursery is likely to alter. It wouldn't even be the same as a nursery starting up as none of the staff taking over from the end of next week will be prepared.

I work so it is necessary for me to have good childcare for him.

My question is, my nursery contract (one page doc) basically says I should give a terms notice, that is approx £800, of which I don't have. I am wondering if taking out the very stability of my sons environment would be sufficient grounds to say the contract is exhausted and not be liable to the terms fees.

Sorry for the waffle, I am just so concerned about everything
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Comments

  • crispeater
    crispeater Posts: 1,072 Forumite
    im in a similar position to yourself. my childrens nursery is up for sale and the staff are looking for other jobs and 7 families are leaving the other side of xmas :( so obviously no children, no staff no blinking nursery so i've had no alternative but to start looking for a new one. my ds who is 14mths took 8 mths to settle in and get used to the staff and now he loves them to bits and my dd who is 3 1/2 this is her 2nd nursery as the 1st one she hated. im not sure if its going to be more of a wrench for me or the children.
    i have found a suitable nursery which the children seemed to like when i visited and the staff seemed friendly. i also found out one of the staff from our current nursery will be working at the new one so thats a +.

    i know i've waffled but could you not contact the cab and see where you stand. a terms notice seems to be quite long as i believed the norm to be a months notice which is a bit more feasable than a term! your right in saying that they are taking your sons stability away. could you not have a word with the nursery manager and explain your concerns to see if you can just give a months notice?

    goodluck :)
    It only seems kinky the first time.. :A
  • misty
    misty Posts: 1,042 Forumite
    I don't know the legalities of it but the nursery owner isn't considering the children in her care - she's trying to sell it - if she does - your snookered - if she doesn't you have the uncertainty that she may.

    Personally I would take the new place - it has a good rep and they are willing to take him. They may not be able to if you hang on - then hew will have loads of temp staff and then a new nursery.

    A term notice seems a lot - most ask for a month. I would give notice and cancel any direct debits stating the reason you are withdrawing is because of the uncertainty for your child. This is a position she has put you in. If she says she wants the money - I would offer what you could afford to pay on a monthly basis - set up a standing order - taking into account your new nursery fees. If she was to take legal action I think you would look like you were making every effort to pay on unusual circumstances.
  • rio
    rio Posts: 245 Forumite
    I was in this position at the end of the spring. My son's nursery announced it was going to close at the end of the summer term. Lots of parents found their children new places, and when we returned after the Easter holiday there were only 7 children left, all of whom were due to start school in September, and all with parents like me who didn't think it was worth moving them for only one term. The nursery owner started selling off bits of equipment, and over the last few weeks there seemed to be less and less there everyday. The staff were unhappy, uncertain about their future, and this got worse the closer to closure it got. On the last day of term, just as we were leaving two skips arrived, ready for workmen to strip the place out, all the children burst into tears, as did the adults - I'll never forget it!
  • fsdss
    fsdss Posts: 1,429 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    the nursery i used tried to sell last year, and couldn't. however they did offer us a waiver on our contract with a months notice. so its worth an ask

    then in jan we were given 6 weeks to find alternative care, as they were closing down and we were allowed to leave immediately if we wanted. i did this and on the last day that it was shutting down......someone bought it and it remained open, keeping all the staff..i was gutted as i had already moved my child out.
    Give blood - its free
  • I think legally you are on pretty shaky ground. I understand what you are saying (eg there is an implied term in the contract that they will provide stability to your child in the form of some kind of continuity of staff, this has been breached, therefore you are entitled to terminate without notice). But I think if push came to shove you would be very lucky to be successful. Part of a nursery arrangement is change in staff.

    I completely understand you position, I would feel exactly the same way, and you must be devastated and really annoyed. As a more practical step could you either negotiate with the owner for a shorter notice period, or else you could say you were not paying and see what happens? She might think that having outstanding fees and legal wrangles with dissatisfied parents was not the way to sell her nursery successfully, especially as so much of nursery selection is word of mouth.

    I know what I would do - start nice with negotiation, then refuse to pay and see what happens. Worse comes to the worse you might have to pay up later.

    I really feel for you...best of luck, and keep us posted.
  • Your first duty is to your offspring so move your son and worry about the legal side later (if at all)

    What sammyD said….

    “there is an implied term in the contract that they will provide stability to your child in the form of some kind of continuity of staff, this has been breached, therefore you are entitled to terminate without notice”

    sounds reasonable to me as almost all the staff are leaving, throw in the uncertainty (will he find a buyer at all?) and it’s a no brainer
  • Bossyboots
    Bossyboots Posts: 6,757 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    I don't agree with this issue of what is implied in the contract about continuity of staff. This is something absolutely no employer can be expected to give unless they have tied their staff into employment contracts that mean they can't leave. These contracts would themselves then be unfair and so not enforceable. The only element of an implied contract in respect of staff is that they will actually provide staff.

    I would however want to go through the contract in minute detail to see whether there is anything at all that can be raised as a breach of the contract and thus a get out enabling the OP to move her child. There is a legal ratio of adult to child that must be adhered to so I am intrigued as to how they are going to meet that. Using agency staff is surely not a financial option. The problem I can see is that to sell the nursery most buyers are going to want to see it as a going concern. If the parents leave that won't be the case and at the very least would reduce the potential sales value. I can't see the owner being too keen therefore to let parents out of the contract.

    What I think I would be looking at as well, is whether the current staff are qualified. Will they be replaced with qualified staff. If your child went into nursery with qualified staff on hand every day, then it is reasonable to consider part of your contract with them as being that they will provide qualified staff. This may be a way out. I am struggling to see how they can simply acquire a full complement of like for like staff at such short notice at a price they are likely to be able to afford to pay. Don't the staff also have to be police checked before working with children, so its not like she can coerce friends or parents to help out. I think the staff issue is going to be the way out of the contract, but not in the manner thus far described.
  • A nursery that loses nine out of ten (or whatever) staff in one go is not the nursery you signed up to and so I wouldn’t feel at all obligated by your contract.

    As I remember small people do seem to get embarrassingly attached to staff at nurseries and to lose that many staff in one go and at such short notice must set alarm bells ringing.

    The other thing to think about is what assets is the owner trying to sell? Rented church hall premises, all new temp staff and a group of unhappy parents. Sounds like all he has to sell is a few boxes of toys, can’t see people queuing up to buy.

    I’d move your baby before the new place goes to someone else
  • Doodles
    Doodles Posts: 413 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Photogenic
    Hi, I also think you might be on shaky ground here too. But it might be worth the argument with them and see what happens.

    I was in a similar (although not quite the same) situation recently - I had to take my son out of an after school club and i was contracted to give a month's notice. But there was a particular incident I was very unhappy about (along with a general disatisfaction for the previous 3 weeks) that I took him out that same evening the incident happened. I was so adamant that my son shouldn't be in that enviroment (of that particular club) that I really couldn't care that I would have them a whole month's payment.

    In the end, it worked out for the good because the club waivered the months notice because of "the circumstances", and my son is over the moon about his new club and wants to go more than the 3 nights he is there for!

    You know your child best - if you think he will be traumatised by leaving him another couple of months, then take him out and the £800 loss is just one of those things. But argue (nicely!) the case with them first, they might relent or perhaps waive 50% of the notice period or something.

    Best of luck with whatever you decide!
  • silvercar
    silvercar Posts: 49,523 Ambassador
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Academoney Grad Name Dropper
    As the business is up for sale, you could get away with it.

    If they take legal action against you, they will have to declare it as a pending dispute to any future owner, its part of what solicitors call "due diligence" ie in buying the business you are checking out any legal obligations that owning the business will bring.

    If they decide to just call you a debtor to the compnay (ie you owe them money), they are going to have to explain to the prospective new owner why fees are outstanding).

    There other option is to write off the money you owe them or settle for a lower amount now.
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