Kitchen cabinet confusion

kitchensink_2

Hi, like many other people i'm trying to get my head around buying a new kitchen and seem to be getting more and more confused by the second! The main thing i'm struggling with is the differences between the quality of kitchen units and manufacturers. I was hoping if i wrote down what i've found out, with a some queries, I might get a few things cleared up and possibly help someone else in the process, so here goes...(sorry this is going to be long )

there seems to be tons of people who manufacture kitchens, some of whom do the whole lot ie doors and carcasses and some who do just doors.

Omega Plc - make the following kitchens
1. omega kitchens that come flat packed
2. sheraton kitchens that are supplied ridgid
3. chippendale that are flat packed
4. charles rennie mac that are ridgid

Mereway - make 1. wentworth kitchens 2. english revival and 3. cucina colore. All are supplied with ridgid carcasses.

Second nature and burbidge just make doors. Burbidge seem to be linked with multiwood who also just make doors.

Other makes i have come accross include, marpatt, colonial, crown imperial, miton, beckermann, pronorm, but i'm not sure whether they make who cabinets and doors or just doors?

Then you have homebase, b & q, wickes, ikea, howdens, buildbase, benchmarx etc

my queries are
- if you chose a range from a company who just make doors eg second nature, how do you know if you are getting a ridgid, flatpack or assembled flatpack carcass?
- if you can see a cam fitting underneath a wall unit in a showroom does that mean it's flatpack?
- If carcasses are assembled in a factory or by the supplier before being sent out using glue and screws and cams is that assembled flatpack or as good as ridgid?


I hope this make some sense, not sure if it does to me! :rotfl:

Thanks.

ps also just remembered to ask if anyone knows the difference between mdf amd mfc?

CyCo_2

kitchensink wrote: »

my queries are
- if you chose a range from a company who just make doors eg second nature, how do you know if you are getting a ridgid, flatpack or assembled flatpack carcass?
It all depends on who are supplying the carcases. PWS and Burbidge supply doors to a lot of independent kitchen suppliers, who then buy their carcases elsewhere
- if you can see a cam fitting underneath a wall unit in a showroom does that mean it's flatpack?
Pretty much, yes
- If carcasses are assembled in a factory or by the supplier before being sent out using glue and screws and cams is that assembled flatpack or as good as ridgid?
That is assembled flat-pack and no, they are never as good as truly rigid built carcases

ps also just remembered to ask if anyone knows the difference between mdf amd mfc?
MDF = Medium Density Fibreboard
MFC = Melamine Faced Chipboard (which also comes in different grades, i.e. furniture grade)

I hope that answers your questions?

kitchensink_2

Thanks Cyco that's really helpfull and confirms what i was thinking. So i guess I can only be sure that mereway and 2 of the omega plc kitchens come rigid.
It's just that I've come accross independents who seem reasonably priced for what we are after, and they claim their cabinets are rigid but looking underneath they have cam fittings.

Does it matter if cabinets are made from mdf or mfc?

CyCo_2

kitchensink wrote: »

Does it matter if cabinets are made from mdf or mfc?

Well MDF is a lot more expensive than MFC, but to be completely honest, there is no real advantage to using it for carcases. As long as you use a minimum of a 15mm furniture grade MFC (as preferred in Germany) or a 18mm standard grade MFC (which is more commonly used over here), you wont have any problems with the stability of the carcases.

majjie

Hi Kitchensink,

I'll throw in my two pennorth:

Second nature and burbidge just make doors. Burbidge seem to be linked with multiwood who also just make doors.

Yes - they all make doors - but I don't think there's any connection between Burbidge and Multiwood

Other makes i have come accross include, marpatt, colonial, crown imperial, miton, beckermann, pronorm, but i'm not sure whether they make who cabinets and doors or just doors?

Not sure about all of them. Marpatt just make doors; Colonial will do either - doors only, or complete with flat pack carcasses. Crown Imperial are complete - with flat pack carcasses. Never heard of Miton. Beckermann and Pronorm were both German brands ... Beckerman still is and will be complete units (not sure whether rigid or not). Pronorm is now owned by a Dutch company.

Then you have homebase, b & q, wickes, ikea, howdens, buildbase, benchmarx etc

B&Q's Cooke & Lewis kitchens have rigid carcasses, so do Howdens main ranges - Wickes and IKEA are flat packs. Not sure about the others.

my queries are
- if you chose a range from a company who just make doors eg second nature, how do you know if you are getting a ridgid, flatpack or assembled flatpack carcass?

Well - you could always try asking!

- if you can see a cam fitting underneath a wall unit in a showroom does that mean it's flatpack?

Don't know about that - I design kitchens - but have never fitted one!

- If carcasses are assembled in a factory or by the supplier before being sent out using glue and screws and cams is that assembled flatpack or as good as ridgid?

It's assembled flatpack. Personally, though, I don't believe there's a huge amount of difference between flat packs and rigid carcasses these days. There used to be - and the flat packs were poorer quality - but flat packs have improved enormously. A factory made joint is going to be stronger ... but I'd sooner have a Crown Imperial or a Colonial flatpack, than a B&Q or Howdens rigid kitchen anyday. I'm more interested in the range of unit sizes, the quality of the chipboard, what edging is used and whether or not the carcasses are colour matched to the doors (depending on the door, of course). And I'd go for an independent company that can make made to measure carcasses any day - over one that relies only on standard sizes.

I hope this make some sense, not sure if it does to me! :rotfl:

Thanks.

ps also just remembered to ask if anyone knows the difference between mdf amd mfc?

As has been said - MFC is melamine faced chipboard - the vast majority of carcasses will be made from MFC. I only know of one company, local to me, that routinely uses melamine faced MDF ... and they're much pricier than the examples you've listed. I know others who will use it if asked - but it'll bump the price up.

You can download a free guide to kitchens called "Before You Start" from my website. I know that sounds self promotional - and I can't give you a link - but the information is independent of any suppliers and it's free.

Majjie

leveller2911

We use Melamine faced MDF, timber vaneered MDF and also Birch faced ply.I'm not a fan of MFC but its all down to choice and budget ,horses for coarses I guess.

I'm currently paying around £20-00 for an 8x4 sheet of 19mm MFMDF so I'm not really sure why people still use MFC so I'm interested to know some opinions ..

majjie

I really don't know Leveller. I tend to just ask suppliers what they use - without asking why.:p

The company I know that uses MFMDF is doing it to be different - and to be able to say that their carcasses are better.

My guesses, as to why other companies don't follow suit, would be:

1. MFC is easier to get hold of - more suppliers stock it
2. there's a wider choice of colours
3. it's easier to cut up (less dense - and less dust)
4. it's cheaper

You say how much the MFMDF is - but you don't say how much you could buy MFC for - from the same supplier. If you're making a small number of high end kitchens, then the price differential is going to be less important than if you're making high volume, low price kitchens.

Majjie

kitchensink_2

thanks majjie, also really helpful, especially your thoughts about some flatpacks versus shed rigid carcasses. I was under the impression that rigid carcasses are always better, so it's definitely food for thought (pardon the kitchen pun...)

I have tried asking independants if their carcasses are rigid or flatpacked, but was confused when i was told they were rigid even though they have cam fittings under the wall units in the showroom.
I will have a look at your site though, i'm sure i'll be able to find it

Thanks again.

majjie

You're welcome Kitchensink ... and yes - I'm sorry - I noticed after I'd posted that you'd already asked your independent kitchen supplier about his carcasses.

In my experience the ones who make their own carcasses (or buy in good quality ones) are very proud of them and are likely to go on - at length! - about how they're made.

Perhaps you just need to find another independent?

Majjie

ryder72

Everything to be answered has been covered. Just wanted to add one final bit.

Omega Plc will supply the Omega (and possibly Chippendale) assembled in the factory for a small extra charge (I believe this is possible with Crown as well, but I am not 100% sure). Bear in mind that this is still a flat packed kitchen with cams.

Some unscruplous kitchen independents have been known to supply Omega/Chippendale kitchens as Sheraton to unsuspecting customers. If you do decide to go down the Sheraton route, ensure that you dont get Omega/Chippendale instead. They are all the same stuff.

kitchensink_2

thanks. the independent supplier i'm thinking of does has done several kitchens in my area, it's just not been clear to me where he gets his doors and carcasses. I have asked, but perhaps not directly enough and will try again. the impression i have tho is that everything is made on site which i must admit, i find hard to believe.

majjie - he has 'gone on at length' (!) about his carcasses and infact has a model cabinet to show to customers so you can see how it's built - which to me seems like a good sign. It's just the unclarity about where the doors are from and the fact he is stating that his cabinets are rigid when they have cam fittings that bothers me. Maybe i'm answering my own question here....