Good luck - 11 transfer Northern Ireland

Martin_Chambers

snowJo wrote: »

Have listed 4 schools on the transfer form - 3 grammars and 1 secondary. No point in adding any more as it involves too much travelling. So, will now play the waiting game for my son's borderline mark. The local secondary school is just as good as the 3 grammar schools and there's not really that much between all four schools. My son is not in the least concerned about it all as he would know pupils at all 4 schools.

To paraphrase John McEnroe "You cannot be serious". The purpose of the tests is to seek entrance to a grammar school. Your assessment "that the local secondary is just as good as the 3 grammar schools" is simply wrong. it seems that you have wasted resources if your core belief is that grammar schools and secondary schools are the same. Are you sure your child is ambivalent or are you simply preparing for disappointment?

TaraB

Martin_Chambers wrote: »

To paraphrase John McEnroe "You cannot be serious". The purpose of the tests is to seek entrance to a grammar school. Your assessment "that the local secondary is just as good as the 3 grammar schools" is simply wrong. it seems that you have wasted resources if your core belief is that grammar schools and secondary schools are the same. Are you sure your child is ambivalent or are you simply preparing for disappointment?

You really are a nasty piece of work, PaceNI. Things are obviously too quiet for you these days at the Belfast Telegraph education section.

RikM

facingthefuture wrote: »

There must be a fair and proper way to assess teaching.To teach must be a privilege as well as a responsibility.

one problem with assessing teachers, is that you need to accurately and objectively assess the progress of the children in their care.... Which kind of implies more rigorous testing. Something most unions appear to oppose, and the current minister would probably have fits about.

While schools and heads are probably well aware of which teachers are poor, getting rid of them without cause is problematic, to say the least.

snowJo

TaraB, I was just ignoring Martin Chambers as I don't think he adds anything to this forum. The rest of us are here for some support and advice at a time when our kids are going through a relatively new process in their education. My son is happy and content at whatever the outcome is in May, and that's down to the fact that we have not allowed the pressure to fall onto his young shoulders. To him, high school, secondary school, grammar school.......all are the same.....the next step in his education. To us, he is a wee star who managed a decent mark without the 18 months of tutoring some other children had. The choice of schools today was entirely his own.

RikM

While I don't want to feed the troll, it brings up an interesting point. Is a grammar better than a secondary?

My personal view is "not necessarily". I think the grammar we've chosen for ds, is probably the best place for him, but given a choice between a bad grammar and a good secondary....

Part of the problem is that the schools are supposed to have a different focus. Grammars more academic, secondary more vocational. But prejudice tends to make people think that a non-academic focus is a failure, rather than a valid alternative. Blame the recent governments, for trying to force everyone towards university....

Martin_Chambers

I would suggest that you re-read the forum rules as newbies. It is nice to have you here professing to be part of the caring community but evidence tops anecdote any day. So for the benefit of all parents, myself included, please identify the difference between a good and bad school with the measurement criteria clearly outlined. Please name a secondary school that is better than a grammar school for academic attainment and also provide your evidence of any link between Martin Chambers and Paceni.
Sorry to be doling out homework for the first year joiners but there are some serious issues to be addressed on this forum.

facingthefuture

Today we had our interview with the headmaster, he did not give any advice, just asked which schools did we want to choose. He did say he was at the sorting office at 8.30 on results day, amazes me he was bothered since they didn't teach the children for the exam. He also asked did our son ask the other children their grades, we explained he knew a few but we had him warned not to ask anyone (I explained to him how some might be unhappy and sensitivity was in order).
As for the question of grammar vs secondary, there are certain secondary schools which excel. I know St Mary's (our local school) has a 70% pass (A-C) rate at GCSE for 5+ subject, that is not bad going! In addition they have endless awards...
National & International Awards
• 2 European Quality Awards
• 3 National Schools’ Curriculum Awards
• 4 Charter Mark Awards
• Investor in People (recognised 4 times)
• Investor in People Leadership Standard
• Investor in People Champion Award
• 2 Northern Ireland Quality Awards (Public Sector)
• The United Kingdom Business Excellence Award
• The Millennium Excellence Award
• The TNT Modernising Government Partnership Award
• The European Alcuin Award
• 2 National Training Awards
• 2 Regional Training Awards
• The Northern Ireland I.I.P Innovation Award
• The N.I Business-Education Partnerships Award
• 5 Gold Health Promoting Schools’ Awards


This school is over subscribed and deserves praise.
http://www.brightfuturesni.org/school_info_files/2230081_download.pdf

Frankly, I do not profess to be an expert in education - far from it.I couldn't begin to compare schools in the manner some people require. However, I know a parent is often best placed to judge not only the ability of their child but where that child may flourish and achieve not just examination success. Honestly, one of big concerns in all of this with my own son is to select a school whereby he will not be bullied for his high prescription glasses. The biggest all boys grammar school in Europe is here and frankly I wouldn't want him to attend it because he certainly would get bullied.
Unfortunately, bullying is evident even on this thread...still I appreciate all the help and advice other posters have been kind enough to impart.

RikM

Martin_Chambers wrote: »

please identify the difference between a good and bad school with the measurement criteria clearly outlined. Please name a secondary school that is better than a grammar school for academic attainment.

As I believe I pointed out earlier, there doesn't seem to be any documentary evidence available for distinguishing between bad/better/good. Lists of exam results aren't it.
If a grammar can't impress me more than a secondary on an open evening, what other evidence can I use? (And to name some schools in that example; Belfast High gave a worse impression than Carrick College and Ulidia).

"academic attainment"? Straw man. I know I wasn't talking about that. I don't have good evidence on which to judge attainment, as something apart from the selective nature of the schools. Selective schools get exam results, of course. Do they get better results than secondarys, when the selection bias is removed? I don't have any evidence, one way or another, on that. That's one of the irritations in the system.

NW_mum_2

Anyone know the typical GL scores in NW in derry area. My nephew got 245 and trying to find out that is sufficient to get in. Last year 281 was the top score for school and anyone heard of such scores this year. Thanks in advance.

KittyKaity

Also other considerations to take into account. My oldest was at a grammar school, left after Yr 9 and moved to the local integrated. I know that his exam results are better than they would have been if he stayed because he is happy in his new school and was miserable at his old one. Happy kids work, miserable ones don't. His exam results were excellent in his new school, 11 GCSEs, all top grades and an A grade A level by the end of Yr 12, doing a further 2 GCSEs and 4 A levels in 6th form. I'm not saying that all secondaries are better than all grammars, that would be truly silly, but so is saying all grammars are better than all secondaries. His old school also had a nearly 50% drop out rate at the end of Yr 13 last year due to kids failing and not being allowed back to Yr 14, his new school didn't have anything even approaching that.