Council tax - right for councils to charge in advance

cavim

I just typed a long post and it's just disappeared, so here's another version but it might mean 2 are on the site now!

WHY ARE COUNCILS ALLOWED TO CHARGE US A YEAR IN ADVANCE FOR SERVICES WE HAVEN'T YET RECEIVED, AND THEN ONLY LET US PAY IN 10 (NOT 12) INSTALMENTS SO THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED ALL THE MONEY IN 2 MONTHS BEFORE THE END DATE?
AND WHY ARE THEY ALLOWED TO ISSUE THREATENING LETTERS BY SECOND CLASS, GIVING ALMOST NO NOTICE FOR PAYMENT "OF ARREARS" AND CALLING LETTERS "SECOND REMINDERS" WHEN A PREVIOUS REMINDER MIGHT HAVE REFERRED TO AN INSTALMENT 6 MONTHS' PRIOR?
AND IF WE DON'T PAY BY THEIR NEW DUE DATE, THEY START COURT PROCEEDINGS?
HAS ANYONE CHALLENGED THIS OR KNOW HOW, LEGALLY, THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT? AND WHY AREN'T WE ALL FIGHTING IT?

p00hsticks

Please don't shout ......

Why should councils be any different from the many other companies that charge you in advance - for example, car and house insurance, TV licence etc ?

CIS

WHY ARE COUNCILS ALLOWED TO CHARGE US A YEAR IN ADVANCE FOR SERVICES WE HAVEN'T YET RECEIVED, AND THEN ONLY LET US PAY IN 10 (NOT 12) INSTALMENTS SO THAT THEY'VE RECEIVED ALL THE MONEY IN 2 MONTHS BEFORE THE END DATE?

What you need to ask is why the government created these rules - the councils didn't create the rules but they have a statutory requirement to apply them as per the legislation.

AND WHY ARE THEY ALLOWED TO ISSUE THREATENING LETTERS BY SECOND CLASS, GIVING ALMOST NO NOTICE FOR PAYMENT "OF ARREARS" AND CALLING LETTERS "SECOND REMINDERS" WHEN A PREVIOUS REMINDER MIGHT HAVE REFERRED TO AN INSTALMENT 6 MONTHS' PRIOR?

You receive a Demand Notice giving a minimum of 14 days notice before the first instalment and it gives you the dates to pay for future payments. If you dont pay on the due date most councils wait 3-4 days before sending a reminder, this reminder then gives you 7 days to pay and there's usually a bit more lee way before a summons is issued - this gives you at least 10 days after the due date you make a payment.

If it was a private company and you kept missing the date then they would start removing the service - the council cant do this so instead they allow you several chances across the year to pay before taking legal action. There isn't a problem with this as you've had the services you haven't paid for.

HAS ANYONE CHALLENGED THIS OR KNOW HOW, LEGALLY, THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT? AND WHY AREN'T WE ALL FIGHTING IT?

Its quite legal - take a read of the Local Government Finance Act 1992 and the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) regulations 1992.

cavim

p00hsticks wrote: »

Please don't shout ......

Why should councils be any different from the many other companies that charge you in advance - for example, car and house insurance, TV licence etc ?

Good point; perhaps we should be challenging those as well!

Auntie-Dolly

If we didn't pay in advance how would the council pay their workes or suppliers?

cavim

CIS wrote: »

What you need to ask is why the government created these rules - the councils didn't create the rules but they have a statutory requirement to apply them as per the legislation.

You receive a Demand Notice giving a minimum of 14 days notice before the first instalment and it gives you the dates to pay for future payments. If you dont pay on the due date most councils wait 3-4 days before sending a reminder, this reminder then gives you 7 days to pay and there's usually a bit more lee way before a summons is issued - this gives you at least 10 days after the due date you make a payment.

If it was a private company and you kept missing the date then they would start removing the service - the council cant do this so instead they allow you several chances across the year to pay before taking legal action. There isn't a problem with this as you've had the services you haven't paid for.



Its quite legal - take a read of the Local Government Finance Act 1992 and the Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) regulations 1992.

Many thanks for explaining from the Council recovery point of view. I'd still be interested to hear from anyone on the consumer-legal aspects and whether we could challenge the existing system/Acts/law (or at least petition our MPs for change in the existing systems/legislation). We do seem to put up with a lot of non-logical and unfair things in this country, especially when they cost us a lot of money!

shaun_from_Africa

If we didn't pay in advance how would the council pay their workes or suppliers?

Or more importantly, how would the council fat cats ensure that their pension accounts were topped up before the money ran out?

calleyw

cavim wrote: »

AND THEN ONLY LET US PAY IN 10 (NOT 12) INSTALMENTS

Are you sure

Yours

Calley

wealdroam

cavim wrote: »

Many thanks for explaining from the Council recovery point of view. I'd still be interested to hear from anyone on the consumer-legal aspects and whether we could challenge the existing system/Acts/law (or at least petition our MPs for change in the existing systems/legislation). We do seem to put up with a lot of non-logical and unfair things in this country, especially when they cost us a lot of money!

Feel free to write to your MP.

I really don't understand what is 'non-logical' about this.

They send you a bill.
You choose which method to pay.
You then pay.

Tell me again... what is wrong with paying in ten equal monthy instalments?

cavim

wealdroam wrote: »

Feel free to write to your MP.

I really don't understand what is 'non-logical' about this.

They send you a bill.
You choose which method to pay.
You then pay.

Tell me again... what is wrong with paying in ten equal monthy instalments?

It's the principle of having to pay up front for services we haven't already received. I have a business and would love to charge people for services they've not yet had but wouldn't be able to do it (though I suppose a lot of builders do it, but we're all being told not to pay up front for services we haven't received when it comes to builders ....!!).

By us paying in 10 monthly instalments, the Council is being even more greedy - ie they're getting the money in 2 months before the end of the Council tax year, boosting their coffers even more.

I think someone also asked how the Council would pay their staff if they didn't have Council tax in advance but we're not the only source of income for the Council and my understanding is that reserves, certainly in this area, are way above what is set down as necessary. I'd also wouldn't expect my Council tax to be paying for any Council expenditure that's not within the services we receive for our Council Tax payments (ie refuse collection, etc).

Responding to another comment from someone else too, I'd already planned to write to my own MP, but the idea of commenting on this website is to find like-minded people so either we can jointly contact our MPs (a lot more impact than just me writing to mine!) or, even better, that Martin takes this issue up for us. Just because Council Tax (and car or home insurance for that matter) has been paid a year in advance in the past shouldn't mean it always has to be paid that way. There'd be no change if we didn't question the way things work.

unholyangel

calleyw wrote: »

Are you sure

Yours

Calley

I think if you pay by any other method than DD you pay 10 months and get 2 months where no payment is required.

If you pay by direct debit, its split over 12 months and your monthly payment is less than paying (for example) in cash in the council offices.

I'm pretty sure they do something similar with rent. Where by you pay 50 out of 52 weeks or something similar. TBH its been 7-8 years since i paid in cash and now pay by direct debit so i'm going by memory alone.