Vermin in property

G_M

garethevans1986 wrote: »

All "food stuffs" were in sealed plastic tubs, plastic bags or metal tins. Yes anything they fancied they got into EXCEPT the tinned stuff. There was even a plastic bait tub which was clean and empty that they had chewed through - they was about 2/3 of it left!

I think you've answered your own question.

So where do I stand and where do I go from here?

Rats came in due to tenant's lifestyle.

Buy new fishing kit and keep it in the garden shed.

Consider buying contents insurance for your personal belongings in the future.

Incyder

James_N wrote: »

It could equally have been Rattus norvegicus

Yes indeed, it would have been

Rattus Ruttus is the latin name for black rat, it gave the Bubonic Plauge to London in 1665 and killed an estimated 100,000 people, 20% of London's population then. A year later, London was hit by the Great Fire, which started in Pudding lane. Wow, not great times for the locals. It's now almost extinct.

Rattus norvegicus is the latin name for the brown rat. This species is the one we see today, in houses, by rivers, down alleyways.
They are very common and it's said you are only 15 feet from one at any time. They are very scared of humans and will leg it at the first oppertunity. They do carry some nasty diseases such as Weil's disease/Leptospirosis http://www.leptospirosis.org/

There is no such thing as a water rat, although it is a common term. Brown rats live by water very happily as its a good food source, they also swim very well. A water rat is in fact just a brown rat.

There are water voles, and maybe confusingly, one of these was named "ratty" in the Wind in the Willows book of yesteryear. Water voles are harmless little fellows and are very very rare. They live in the crystal clear streams and meadows that run through Hampshire for instance.

Below are 3 pics, black rat, brown rat, water vole.

mostlycheerful

Yes, good comprehensive replies, but it’s worth stressing the fact that rats have an acute sense of smell and you haven’t acknowledged that you’ve taken this on board in your replies.

In fact you’ve said the reverse and demonstrated that you haven’t taken this in :

“The fishing equipment hadn't been used in 6 months and trust me, if something did smell the wife would of said so!”

No, your wife is a human with only a human’s level of smell sense. Rats’ sense is a quantum or ten levels more acute.

“fishing gear…"food stuffs" was either in plastic sealed tubs, plastic sealed bags or sealed tins…another large box with bags of groundbait and pellets…a dead rat on top of one of the bags…2 dead rats amongst the fishing equipment…no evidence of rats in other parts of the house”

G_M and CloudCuckooLand are correct. You’ve caused this problem yourself. Rats have a highly acute sense of smell so obviously they’ve been attracted to your fishing gear and the boxes and bags of organic material. So you have only yourself to blame.

“All "food stuffs" were in sealed plastic tubs, plastic bags or metal tins.”

Yes, with lots of smell residue all over them and leaking out through the seals. You’ve heard of dogs being used by the police to sniff out contraband and by the military to sniff explosives, well rats have similarly acute smell sense and are also used in some countries to sniff out land mines. Your fishing gear has been giving off yummy smells that rats can pick up from a long way away. That’s why they all went into that room and nowhere else.

G_M : “Rats came in due to tenant's lifestyle.”

Correct. If you’re a decent sort you should now fess up and apologise to your landlord and wife, and anyone else who has been affected if there are any other people, for causing this problem due to the smell given off by your gear and organic material which has attracted the rats which have a highly developed sense of smell.

Annisele

garethevans1986 wrote: »

All "food stuffs" were in sealed plastic tubs, plastic bags or metal tins. Yes anything they fancied they got into EXCEPT the tinned stuff. There was even a plastic bait tub which was clean and empty that they had chewed through - they was about 2/3 of it left!

That does sound very much as though they came in after your fishing stuff.

The Pest removal fella said that the rats came into the house seeking warmth.

Maybe that's why they came in...but they might well have stayed around because of the fishing stuff.

The fishing equipment hadn't been used in 6 months and trust me, if something did smell the wife would of said so!

But if it didn't smell strongly, and she doesn't go into the room all that often...she might not have smelt the "foodstuffs" in the sealed packets.

What for...?? It's not a "he said, I said" situation.

It might well be if you start claiming for things...

As I see it, you've got several problems with trying to claim anything:

• If you try to claim from your landlord, then he might well try to evict you as soon as your fixed term is up - rocking the boat isn't always smart.
• Rightly or wrongly, I'm not the only one who suspects that your fishing gear might have had something to do with the rats. I'm not at all sure that you can show that anybody else was at fault - and if you can't show that your LL/some other person was at fault, you can't claim from them.
• Your insurance has a 'vermin' exclusion, so that's a no-go.
• Now you've thrown the fishing gear away, can you prove that it wasn't salvageable? What will you say if the person you claim from suspects you're just trying to get some new fishing gear?
• Can you prove that you ever owned any of the fishing gear in the first place? Do you have photographs/receipts?

I know I've been pretty negative - sorry - but you need to decide if this is a battle you want to fight, and if so, with whom. Who told you that your LL was "at fault", and why? What was the value of your lost equipment?

Incyder

Well for the defence, your honour, I would like to point out that a rat needs an entrance/exit.
This usually is poor/loose brickwork, dodgy drains, ill fitting doors and frames.
A well maintained house will have no rats.
A house with some problem areas and a food source inside may have them.

cardsharps

garethevans1986 wrote: »

Bearing in mind we have 1 cat and a 4 to 5 month old kitten we haven't seen any evidence of mice in the house other than the noise beneath the floorboards.


So where do I stand and where do I go from here?

Gareth

Have a stern word with your cat. He/She isn't doing its job.

Pookielydia

mostlycheerful wrote: »

If you’re a decent sort you should now fess up and apologise to your landlord and wife, and anyone else who has been affected if there are any other people, for causing this problem due to the smell given off by your gear and organic material which has attracted the rats which have a highly developed sense of smell.

I agree with almost all of the other replies in this thread regarding why the rats came in, but I don't think it's fair to say the tenant should apologise to the landlord and his wife etc, because the rats obviously came in through some sort of hole/gap that shouldn't have been there in the 1st place which isn't the fault of the tenant.

I don't know a lot about rats nor do I want to but I'm just saying it's not fair to put all the blame entirely on the tenant, and I don't think he should be made to apologise for something which ultimately (holes/gaps that the mice came through) weren't his fault, as pointed out by Incyder a rat needs an entrance/exit to be able to get into the house in the 1st place.

Incyder wrote: »

Well for the defence, your honour, I would like to point out that a rat needs an entrance/exit.
This usually is poor/loose brickwork, dodgy drains, ill fitting doors and frames.
A well maintained house will have no rats.
A house with some problem areas and a food source inside may have them.

mostlycheerful

Pookielydia wrote: »

I agree with almost all of the other replies in this thread regarding why the rats came in, but I don't think it's fair to say the tenant should apologise to the landlord and his wife etc, because the rats obviously came in through some sort of hole/gap that shouldn't have been there in the 1st place which isn't the fault of the tenant.

But they wouldn't have come in but for his stuff attracting them so it is his fault - and responsibility. If the stuff hadn't been in the room the rats would not have been attracted to the room. And if they had ever found the room they would have left fairly quickly in search of food rather than hanging around for so long that 4 of them died in the room. So it appears to be directly because of the stuff he stored in the room and no other reason.

Pookielydia

Well no if they hadn't have been able to get in the room in the first place then it wouldn't matter what was in there so it's not his fault, and as has been pointed out (and I'll quote it once again) Incyder has clearly stated and is correct that a rat needs an entrance/exit, therefore if the brickwork is of poor quality and has loose bricks as well as dodgy drains and ill fitting doors etc then it's upto the landlord to address such problems as much as it for the tenant to make the landlord aware of the problems.

Therefore if you want to be like that then the landlord and tenant are equally to blame, it's not ones fault over the other.

Incyder wrote: »

A rat needs an entrance/exit.
This usually is poor/loose brickwork, dodgy drains, ill fitting doors and frames.
A well maintained house will have no rats.

Also you've just said,

If they had ever found the room they would have left fairly quickly in search of food rather than hanging around

Which means even if the room had been empty of all food stuffs had any rats found the room in the first instance it wouldn't have been the tenants fault! Which again brings me back to my original point that if the property was properly maintained and all gaps into the building had been rectified (landlords responsibility) then the rats would never have got in.

So it's not because of the stuff he had stored in the room, it's because there are gaps where there shouldn't be which means they would be able to get in regardless which shouldn't be the case.

tbs624

garethevans1986 wrote: »

Now then, I'm an angler and since the summer my fishing equipment has been stored in this bathroom. In September the electrician came round and got the sockets and light working in our "store room" and had to go into the bathroom, I can only guess that it was to check the wiring to the shower in there. Anyway I closed the door and that was it.

When did you let the poor old sparkie back out?

garethevans1986 wrote: »

Now the fishing gear was stored with nothing that could go off and any "food stuffs" was either in plastic sealed tubs, plastic sealed bags or sealed tins.

The past 4 to 6 weeks we'd been hearing russtling upstairs while we have been downstairs and put it down to the cats either running around or fighting with each other and ignored it.

This one's a joint responsibility IMO. You mention that the bathroom was "unfinished" which perhaps suggests incomplete pipework etc that would allow vermin to enter. This one falls under the LLs responsibility.

However, you leaving "foodstuffs" in plastic tubs/bags is not going to deter old ratty. As others have said, that food source made it worth their while to stick around. You admit that you heard noises but failed to check them out.

I think the cost of replacing your fishing gear is down to you