Private / Independent schools

georgiasmum

I have to say that my daughter has been privately educated since nursery - her school has a nursery attached so she went straight to reception. I too am privately educated and my parents sacrificed a lot to keep all 4 of us there from age 5 to 18. I wouldn't have it any other way with my own child and I have paid of £30000 worth of debt, bought a house and paid school fees on one income ( I was a single parent until last year) so it can be done.

I am a teacher in a large comprehensive secondary school and 35% of my year 7's have reading age below 10 which means they cannot or will seriously struggle to access the National Curriculum from age 11+. This in itself is ammonition for me to keep my daughter in private schooling.

I disagree with the posters who say that primary education isn't important in terms of private schooling - if they don't learn to read before yr 7 they are knackered and it is time consuming to help them catch up! I am the literacy coordinator so I experience this on a daily basis!

It is true that the able will do well anywhere if they are motivated but I have witnessed many bright young things become disenchanted with a system that caters for the mediocre and the poorly behaved. There is not much motivation to be had when you are clever but are surrounded by an 'anti - clever' culture.

That said, I love my job and the kids I teach. State school teachers work very hard and care very deeply about your children's achievement. They are a professional bunch who do well despite the 'system'.

Good luck for your decision - pm me if you like!

gelato_cat

Just my 2p worth...

I know what you mean about "haitch" - I hate it too. However, my bf went to private school and he says it - he won't listen to me when I correct him either.

I also went to private school but, listening to my accent, most people think I'm from East London :eek:

I think being well-spoken is one thing but being able to hold an intelligent conversation is quite another. Also, dialect is an important part of language and people expressing themselves. As long as you can switch it off when it matters and you're not saying "yeah but no but I done gone two mil worf of comp nah innit" in a law firm in the City then I think it's alright how to speak in whichever way feels natural for you

Suze

Milky_Mocha wrote:

Now I am not a snob by any means but one of the reasons I'd like a private education for my child is to influence the way she speaks when she grows/is growing up. Honestly I'd despair if she speaks with the words 'innit' and such. I don't intend for her to talk 'posh' at all. Just to speak properly. Does anyone else feel this way? Another thing I can't stand is pronouncing the letter 'h' as 'hech' instead of 'ech' (you know what I mean).

melt71

I tend to agree with the majority of the other posters. My daughter is 9 this month. As soon as she could sit up I put a book in her hand, including when she was in the bath(!) as I really believe that reading is the key to a good education. I encouraged her to read all the time and when she started nursery (age 3.5) she was so used to books and letters that it was second nature. I have been to her parent evening tonight and I've been told the usual 'she's wonderful, she's very bright, she's helpful, she's confident' etc etc. She is also in the top sets for both numercy and literacy. :T I used to help out in her school and in year 2 (ages 6-7) there were 2 boys that could hardly read at all, so they struggled with the teachers instructions. Sadly it meant they got further and futher behind as the year went on.

I made sure that her school was a great school, but there are 31 pupils in her class and I feel this holds her back as it's the pupils that misbehave or are struggling to do the work that get the attention. However, education isn't all down to schools - we do loads of stuff at home that has really helped her throughout her education and helped her to develop as a person.

As it happens I actually work in education and all of our clients are children at private schools. The schools vary dramatically, don't even think about sending your child to the nearest school because it may not be the right one for YOUR child. Some are academic schools, some are more musical/creative, some are all rounders. I also agree that prep schools are a waste of money if finaces are a concern to you. A good state school coupled with helping your child at home will be just as good if not better until your child is at least 10 or 11 years old. Independant schools have more holidays than state schools so you should consider this if you work. They also seem to spend a lot of their week doing various activities; sports, music and other activities that would normally be done after school - although saying that, their days seem to be longer than state schools.

When it gets to secondary school level, again, I agree with the other posters. It depends completely on the attitude of the school and the pupils at the school. I have had to deal with many situations where independant school pupils drink, have underage sex (sometimes actually in the school!), disappear off the school grounds, steal, cause damage to property and take or DEAL drugs. It is NOT something that only happens in state schools, peer pressure happens in every walk of life.

With regards to speech/accent; I am Mancunian but my daughter was born in Dorset and my accent hasn't affected hers, she speaks with a crisp southern accent! Very posh everybody else around her is from Dorset or the south so that is how she speaks. I have known Asian people (with parents that cannot speak English at all) to speak with English accents because of everybody else around them. This can obviously work both ways if your child starts to hang around with the local chavs :rotfl:

Good luck with your decision, but please don't think that by spending a few thousand £££ you can solve all the problems of your child's education as I can give you documented evidence of our 'problem' pupils that proves that this is not the case. In virtually all cases, the parents paid the very expensive school fees and thought that their responsibility ended there :rolleyes: In other words, if you are willing to give your child time and help at home, you will have a well educated and well rounded child.

By the way, my boss has 3 children all educated privately. They are all doing well academically but his 2 sons have absolutely no common sense whatsoever, which is a trait I have noticed with our clients as well. They also seem to have an attitude that everybody will do everything for them, rather than doing things for themselves.

fabwitch_2

Parts of Essex has very good private and state Schools. For example in Brentwood there are some excellant state Schools including St Martins which was voted top comprehensive School in Essex for A level resilts and 8th top nationally. Like you I used to live in East London Essex border and moved to Brentwood so my children could have a good education and speak nicely. When we visit old friends who could not afford to move away their children all have dreadful accents and they all comment on how nicely my children speak and how knownable and grown up there conversation is.. I know I made the right choice for my children and all the children in their School most have ambition and want to stay on to 6th form for A Levels then off to University. It is seen as the expected thing to do. Visit the Schools during teaching times so you can see how children are taught. At St Martins they have open morning tours where you are taking around. Its a good oppertunity to see the School in the real lightThere are also very good grammer Schools in Essex as well as Brentwood private School.

ted_ted

I have just taken my son age 8 out of a state school and send him to a private school. He started after half term and into his second week. My reasons for this are
He was in a class of 32 children mixed with some year 4 children, who were older and some of them were disruptive. My son find it extremely hard to concentrate. He is a bright child and I always thought that we will be OK at out local school. However he was not stimulated, found the work too easy and was getting a bit bored with school. I tried to sort it out with the school but the attitude of some of the teachers were uncooperative. The state school had this atitude to get all the children to a middle level whereby the 'brighter' ones are somewhat left to their own devices. I do not have any 'snobish' views about private education. I feel as a parent you have to do what is in the BEST INTEREST of the CHILD. My son said at breakfast this morning 'Mum thank you for moving me to ........................... I am so much happier there and I can think again in the classroom. I know I have done what was right for him. It is a huge sacrifice for me but his comments speaks volume.

pboae

I went to state schools, and not particularly good ones, but I was keen to learn and I did well. My OH went to a private school, with an average of 10 kids per class. He acheived one CSE, and his dyslexia went unnoticed. After he left school he worked for a few years, then went back to the local (state run) technical college, with the right support he passed 3 GCSE's in one year, then got 4 A-Levels over the next 2 years.

A private school does not always mean a great education, and a state school does not always mean a poor one. You need to research the individual schools, and decide how your child would fit in there, and make the decision based on that, rather than on how it is funded.

Cazzywazzywoo

My children go to state schools but at one stage I did think about trying to fund a private education.
Instead what we did was made sure we lived in the catchment area for the best state schools in the county and we have then supplemented this with a private tutor for 1hour a week. At times of SATs etc we can increase the private tutoring.
We find this works for us and as sending 3 children to private school would have pushed us to the limit financially we feel it is the best compromise. We can still go on nice holidays a broad, live in a nice house in a good area and educate our children to a good standard.

I have friends who struggled for years to fund their children through a private education. The girl now works on a cosmetics counter and the boy is a drop out. They strongly feel that they wasted their hard earned cash.
I suppose alot of it boils down to whether you can afford comfortably it as a family without it having a detrimental affect on your day to day lifestyle.
Hope this helps
Cazzy.

alwaysskint96

fabwitch wrote:

Parts of Essex has very good private and state Schools. For example in Brentwood there are some excellant state Schools including St Martins which was voted top comprehensive School in Essex for A level resilts and 8th top nationally. Like you I used to live in East London Essex border and moved to Brentwood so my children could have a good education and speak nicely. When we visit old friends who could not afford to move away their children all have dreadful accents and they all comment on how nicely my children speak and how knownable and grown up there conversation is.. I know I made the right choice for my children and all the children in their School most have ambition and want to stay on to 6th form for A Levels then off to University. It is seen as the expected thing to do. Visit the Schools during teaching times so you can see how children are taught. At St Martins they have open morning tours where you are taking around. Its a good oppertunity to see the School in the real lightThere are also very good grammer Schools in Essex as well as Brentwood private School.

I was going to say try Brentwood as well.. If you do decide to go for private at primary level then Brentwood Prep is excellent- although V pricy- my friend pays apprx £10k per year per child.

My 2nd daughter is bright and went from a state primary ( we live in Billericay) to the girls Grammar School in Chelmsford- and there are a couple of girls from Grays/Thurrock there

However in our town both comprehensives have a better reputation that the local private school. My eldest goes to comp locally and is doing her GCSE's this year

So its really a case of doing your homework

Milky_Mocha

Thanks for all your replies. I knew I'd get some good pointers here. I do agree that a lot of children's behaviour stems from the home but with peer pressure and the nanny state we live in (re disciplining children etc) I want to make my job a little bit easier and for my child to feel that bad behaviour is not 'cool' behaviour. I certainly will not allow the kind of practices outlined in monty100's post about those all-night parties:eek: and arrogance, etc.

Peers do matter. As pozalina's post said, "even if your child is well motivated and bright it will be very difficult for them to learn if there are disruptive students in their class"

moneyman4u wrote:

My mother corrected my speech from the time I was born until I left home, I used to find it very annoying as I child, but in hindsight I am very glad that she did. My point is speech comes from the home, and can be corrected by parents without a school influence, innit.

I actually began my education in a state school and did occasionally get corrected by my parents on certain words so reading the above brought back memories. But after too many "oops, sorry Mum I mean ..." my folks got fed up and withdrew me. We still laugh about it today.

Suzey wrote:

Just my 2p worth...

I know what you mean about "haitch" - I hate it too. However, my bf went to private school and he says it - he won't listen to me when I correct him either.

Really? Ok so its not a state school thing. I wonder where that came from.

melt71 wrote:

I tend to agree with the majority of the other posters. My daughter is 9 this month. As soon as she could sit up I put a book in her hand, including when she was in the bath(!) as I really believe that reading is the key to a good education. I encouraged her to read all the time and when she started nursery (age 3.5) she was so used to books and letters that it was second nature. I have been to her parent evening tonight and I've been told the usual 'she's wonderful, she's very bright, she's helpful, she's confident' etc etc. She is also in the top sets for both numercy and literacy.

I so so agree about the reading. Its one of the best things one could do for children. I always remember Oprah Winfrey's life story. She grew up very poor, was abused as a child, etc but she said, "I could outread anyone" and today she's reaping the results.

fabwitch wrote:

Parts of Essex has very good private and state Schools. For example in Brentwood there are some excellant state Schools including St Martins which was voted top comprehensive School in Essex for A level resilts and 8th top nationally. Like you I used to live in East London Essex border and moved to Brentwood so my children could have a good education and speak nicely. When we visit old friends who could not afford to move away their children all have dreadful accents and they all comment on how nicely my children speak and how knownable and grown up there conversation is.. I know I made the right choice for my children and all the children in their School most have ambition and want to stay on to 6th form for A Levels then off to University. It is seen as the expected thing to do. Visit the Schools during teaching times so you can see how children are taught. At St Martins they have open morning tours where you are taking around. Its a good oppertunity to see the School in the real lightThere are also very good grammer Schools in Essex as well as Brentwood private School.

Thanks, that's good to know. I think someone once mentioned Brentwood schools to me so I'm glad its been confirmed here. I work in London so to drop my daughter off in Brentwood would mean a backwards then forwards journey but if it means getting an excellent education whilst saving tens of thousands of pounds then its well worth it. One question, though, would I have to live in Brentwood to attend these schools or do their catchment areas extend to Grays by any chance? Maybe we'd move to Brentwood in a few years' time. Maybe the 'local chavs' as melt71 puts it, wouldn't be so chavvy either (if any locals are reading this please don't take offence as I mean this light heartedly! Besides all my neighbours seem very weel educated and majority work in London City).

alwaysskint96, thanks for the hint. I'll look into Billericay as well.

feesh

I went to private secondary school, thanks to my parents making a lot of sacrifices for me.

I was very upset at the time as it took me away from all my friends in the village. I hid this very well in order to meet my parents' expectations and make them happy and although they technically offered me the choice, really there was only one 'correct' answer to avoid feeling like I'd missed out on some sort of amazing opportunity.

I had a very good education there and we went way over the standard curriculum and I still recount a lot of my learning and find it useful now..... even though it was really equivalent to a dog training school where you just become a trained 'exam machine'.

BUT I wasn't happy. I went into my shell - I didn't fit in, the kids who had been to the attached primary school were the 'favourites' of the teachers and it was very cliquey. There was even an unspoken system of cherry picking into the top 'house' - I was in the house which was a sort of dumping ground for the non-sporty types.

In desperation at my shyness, my Mum forced me to join the local Venture group in the village when I was 15, and this did the trick of bringing me out of my shell again. I re-made friends with the people I'd been at the village primary school with and spent 90% of my social time with them, rather than schoolfriends. :beer:

They were all at the local secondary state school. Out of my small Venture unit, 3 of them got 4 A grades at A-Level.

Yes there were some high achievers at my private school. But unless you were in the main clique the teachers treated you less favourably. I know I sound paranoid but it really was like that, as a lot of the teachers had kids in the school too and there was a lot of politics going on.

I was given bad predicted grades and as a result didn't become a vet as I wanted to, despite doing very well at A-Level in the end (2 As, 2 Bs). I have a very high IQ of 176 (sorry if that sounds arrogant, but it is relevant) so I didn't need pushing in the academic sense, it was more important to me as a person to have a good social network as I was prone to shyness.

A paedophile ring was also uncovered at the school just after I left, involving the deputy head, the maths teacher (who was also the 'school photographer') and another couple of teachers, all of whom were well known in the school for being a bit pervy but we never thought anything of it at the time!!! It was classic private school stuff - masochistic PE teachers in particular. The school photographer was well known for taking pics of us girlies in our gym knickers (it was funny at the time) and now we find out they ended up all over the internet.

There were also a lot of spoilt brats in the school and pupils with parents who were 'good contacts' (e.g. the president of the town rugby club) were given special treatment. As there was so much money around, there were a lot of wild parties and some serious drugs about, which I stayed away from.

I was also forbidden by the school for applying to do marine biology at Uni!!! I ended up having to apply for Zoology in a department I knew also did marine biology, and transferring after year 1. I loved my time at Uni and really enjoyed that degree and found it really challening and interesting. I have never had trouble getting a job since, so it really winds me up that they were so narrow-minded about it.

What I am saying is, please listen to your kids and do what's really best for their personalities, not what's "best" on paper. I was almost manipulated into pretending to be happy about going there and wanting to please my parents, but in reality it did a fair bit of psychological damage to me and it took until I was 15/16 to get my confidence back.

If they are bright they will do well wherever they go. It hurt me at the time to feel like my parents didn't trust me to succeed unless I was pushed. Now I think my Dad was projecting a lot of his own insecurities onto me.

I am happy and well adjusted, and I am really thankful for having been taught to such a high standard. But I still have a slightly awkward relationship with my Mum and its partly because I was such a nightmare teenager, which I think would have gone a lot more smoothly if I was spared the upheaval of moving schools.

Please think carefully about this before your kids get wind of it, as it will be harder to allow them to make an honest and impartial decision about what they want to do if they have heard you talking about it for 2 or 3 years beforehand.

ETA I also got sent to elocution lessons!!!!!! Sounds like my Mum and Dad had the same worries as you, but it does make me sad to think they had so little faith in me, its all about control at the end of the day (mum being the biggest control freak ever!!)