Is it me or him?

jessd_2

the longest post ever, feel free to ignore!

I want to be clear from the start that my boss is an unattractive married man, 20 years my senior, socially inept, regularly offensive and sometimes quite aggressive, inconsiderate, generally unpleasant little man with significant personal hygiene issues (he boasts that it takes him just 15 mins from waking to leaving his house for work - this is because he clearly does not shower on a regular basis). I am his personal secretary. I have never had any feelings for this man and never could.

On coming out of a long term relationship and be dumped from a very great height I was not my usual self at work, was very tearful and emotional. I had a few days sick, then went back to work, spent a few days struggling to cope and decided to take some annual leave and pull myself together. I had to explain to my boss why I needed leave at such short notice as it was a particularly busy time at work. Telling him what was going on was very difficult and I was tearful, he put his arm around my shoulder and was actually quite kind to me and seemed genuinely concerned. I am quite a private person and up until this point he knew very little about me and my personal life, in hindsight i would have kept my private life quiet but I was falling apart and not really on the ball.

On returning to work he started to innocently touch me during conversation, nothing questionable just a touch on the arm here, a pat on the hand there. I am not a touchy feely person which is why I can be so clear that this is when and how it started. I had some complicated financial ties to dissolve with the ex and needed to take an extended lunch break a couple of times to meet with CAB and then a solicitor, I needed my bosses permission for this, so he knew the basics of what was going on with the ex in order to explain why I needed a bit of flex time. The time was always made up.

As time went on he started to take on some kind of fatherly / advice giving / protector kind of role, it was gradual and I dint see it happening. If anyone should make any comment about me they could be construed in the smallest way as negative he would turn on them. He would defend me over nothing and say things like don’t you start on her, leave her alone, she is perfect etc etc. It could be taken as light hearted banter but on a couple of occasions led to members of his senior management team pulling me aside to apologise in case they caused any offence. People started to get this idea that we were friends..

He started being way to interested in my personal life, repeatedly asking me about my ex and if I had seen him, asking me what was happening with the solicitor, asking me how I feel and generally becoming a little too nosy about what was going on with me, it started to creep into every conversation I had with him. I did not want to discuss my personal life with him but once you have let someone in it's hard to keep them out. He would use this bits of information that I had originally given him willingly (for example the solicitors appt) and press for further information. He was treating my personal life like an open conversation that he could bring up at any time. He seemed to lose sight of the fact that the information he had about my personal life is because he is my boss. I have never confided in this man as a friend.

I felt uncomfortable with his interest but told myself he was concerned about me and he knew that I was going through a lot and that in a misguided way he was trying to be decent. Then these little things started to happen , I will give some examples of the types of things

He went from occasionally calling me sweetheart to giving the impression to the rest of the world that the was now my actual name, he started invading my personal space, he regularly gets so close to me when talking that I can feel his smelly breath on my face, whispering in my ear during a meeting, patting a seat to indicate that he wanted me to come and sit next to him when I entered a room. A couple of times he appeared to in an absent minded kind of way put place his hand on the top of my arm and move it slowly up and down while he was standing beside me. A couple of times he has stretched his arms out and yawned in meetings and would leave his arm draped over along the back of my chair leaving me to enjoy the aroma from his sweaty arm pits, it's in front of people but no one ever seems to see. So then I go back to doubting myself and passing it off as nothing. Just lots and lots of little things like this I can write much much more. If he sits on a chair after I have he will say oh you've got a hot bum. Comments that could be innocent, but I feel they are not. He always seems to have some reasonable excuse for invading my space and putting his hands on me.

Then I started to notice him leering at me sometimes, then he started this thing where he would come to my desk and ask me to open a document or emails etc and he would stand behind my chair, or lean over me to look at the screen (there is nearly always other people around, and all he is doing is looking at my screen, and after all its not that odd, I am his secretary after all) he would call me into his office to sit at his desk and type letters and he would walk around and dictate them. As time passed i became increasingly uncomfortable around him but I never really thought about it and ignored my feelings. Then one day while I was in his office discussing a bit of work he made a comment about his wife's lack of chest while openly and blatantly leering at mine, then reverted right back to the conversation about work. I didn't say a word, I was speechless and confused.

Then once again he called me into his office and got me to sit at his desk, again needing me to do something on his pc, I don’t remember what. His chair is always low to the ground and I am tallish, but I finally got it - he loves to have me sit at his desk so that he can try and look down my top.

I always dress in a business appropriate manner at all times and I promise I have never worn anything low cut but I could perhaps have covered up more. Needless to say ever since I realised I have updated my wardrobe and everything I wear finishes at the neck with a jumper or cardigan over the top - despite the office being overly hot on occasion to the point where I have had to leave the building to cool down rather than remove a layer.

Then one time I am sitting at my desk reading and he sneaked up behind me and started massaging my shoulders, there were several other people nearby, but no one even looked up. (This is the incident that really upsets me now when I think about it, I can't believe my reaction was nothing, just nothing… I let that fowl breathed odious little man massage my shoulders). Then a couple of days later he repeated the comments about his wife's chest. Why why why, it was out of the blue and just nothing to do with the matter we were discussing. Things had started to escalate.

Then a totally separate issue occurred where I found out my boss had told a lie which showed me in a bad light to a colleague. It only came to light when I was discussing an unrelated matter with that colleague (she is a lovely lady and I am particularly friendly with her) , it was not a big deal just a bit annoying BUT that was the moment everything hit me and I started telling my colleague what I thought about my boss and his behaviour towards me, how much I hate him and that I want to leave. I must have rambled on for the best part of an hour outlining lots of the types of incidents I have talked about here, saying what a perv I felt he was. At this point it's like everything came together in my mind. I never really accepted and realised that he turned into this total perv and then I just felt really mad with myself and started thinking of all the little things that alone meant nothing it all just made me feel sick.

If he sees me talking to anyone during the working day he acts like he owns me - even if I am having a private conversation. But then it is work and I shouldn’t really be chatting about anything other than work, but you know what it is like. But even in my lunch break he will come over and push his way into any conversation I am having with anyone else. I honestly feel like he is showing everyone that I am his property . People have commented that they cant talk with me without him getting involved.

the next time he came up behind me and started actually massaging my shoulders for the second time, i abruptly and deliberately shifted my chair very hard, turned my shoulders and body sharply and said do you want something? He said he was just looking after me, grinned, walked round to the front of my desk, loiterd a while pretending everything was normal and walked away.

After this incident my way to deal with it was to be totally cold with him, he got no personal information about me, if he asked what I did at the weekend ,I would always say oh nothing. It made me appear rude and moody but I just didn’t care. I avoided him as much as was possible. He started asking me what was wrong, I would say nothing and would immediately end any non work related conversations that he would try to initiate, there was no banter, no friendliness, no kindness and no understanding from me towards him at all. I'm not saying this was the right thing to do but I just became so so angry with him, I couldn't even stand to look at him. I was totally angry with myself as well.

He said a couple of lowlife things to hurt me and then it all stopped. My cold hard act seemed to work.

Then the colleague who I am quite friendly with wanted to talk with me, she told me that my boss had recently been to see her a couple of times for nonsense reasons and kept talking to her about me, saying I didn’t seem like my normal happy self and that he thinks a lot of me and just wants to help. She felt like he was probing and pushing for information about me. She told him nothing.

There have now been 3 or so recent incidents where it has come to light that he discussing me with other people and trying to find out what is going on with me. The trouble is everyone thinks he is my friend and that I like him. I have never said that but everyone thinks we are some kind of duo and we work great together and I would never work for anyone but him. But this is all from him

Then I made a mistake and asked him for some training, he started trying to befriend my again over the last week, telling me how lucky I am to have him etc etc. all I did was ask for some training and now he is using it as an excuse to talk with me and make it into general chit chat and is acting like he would be paying for it out of his own pocket. Now I wish I had never asked and feel like I have started it all up again.

He next asked me to attend a totally legitimate last minute late night meeting with him and some people from another company, which is about 10 miles from our office. It would involve him driving me back to an empty isolated(ish) car park at 9pm to pick up my car afterwards, every bone in my body told me this was a bad idea. I said that I couldn’t and did not explain why. He appeared to accept this but a comment the next day makes me feel he is no longer happy about this and it will be reflected in my next appraisal. He has never before asked me to attend a late night meeting. Then it seemed like the training that had been a real possibility was now potentially not.

So I am asking you to tell me if I am taking a whole lot of nothings and blowing them out of proportion? Is this a big deal because I doubt my own judgement right now.
What has your gut told you while you read this, did you read and think, omg, this lady has lost the plot, her poor boss, he is just a little inappropriate. I just have such a bad feeling about it all, about him.

I have spent another weekend dreading Monday and now it is nearly here.

I have been reading another post on here, and to me it was totally obvious that she had been sexually harassed by a co-worker. If I could see that so clearly, why don’t I know what's going on in my own life. I am frightened of the answers I might get, I can't win, I either have a nightmare boss where things seem to be coming to a head and I am can no longer hide from it or I have some serious issues that need addressing. If it's him what do I do, how should I act, how do I deal with it.

Sambucus_Nigra

What's the company structure like? Is there a boss above him, other managers that you know?

What does your colleague think about it, does she see it or think you are a little touchy about it?

I don't think there are any tick box answers, you've got to work out what's best for you here.

VfM4meplse

This guy has given a little and is taking a whole lot back in return, and you've got something akin to Stockholme syndrome. If you're not prepared to take this to HR it's time to find another job where your reputation will be untarnished. Your boss' actions are bound to have had an unwelcome impact on colleagues who will now see you as his pet.

ceridwen

Well - you've already answered the question I was about to ask you - ie have you read the thread by Gwen80.

It sounds as if you have - so you will have picked up some ideas from that as to how best handle the matter.

You are obviously getting worried about this - judging by the way you have clearly been thinking about it a lot.

Have you got a suitable friend whose judgement you can trust ITRW that you can talk to about this? If you have a good supportive objective friend ITRW that you can trust - then definitely get their views on what they think (because they will know you in person - which obviously we cant from the other end of a screen).

It sounds to me personally as if your vibes are telling you right - ie that this man is acting unprofessionally towards you.

You would be wise to think up suitable polite - but VERY FIRM - ways to make it crystal clear that you are his secretary (pure and simple). He needs to be told straight out clearly on occasions where his behaviour is being unprofessional. Dont put it in a nasty or impolite sort of way - but DO make it very plain and clear.

Right now - straight off - if you arent in the relevant Union - then join it now. Once you HAVE joined it - drop that fact into conversation with him. Hopefully the combined fact of you having told him "Hands off" firmly and let him know you have just joined a Union will be sufficient on its own and he gives up any further such behaviour.

I don't like the sound of that late night meeting incident - so do "cover yourself" and make sure you are never alone with him outside the office ever.

As regards being able to see clearly what is happening in Gwen's life - but not your own. That is common. It is often much easier to see what is happening in someone else's life....

I have been thinking about my own work experiences over the years - in the light of Gwen's thread - for exactly the same reason, ie its so much easier sometimes to see whats happening when it isnt oneself in that position. I can see an "episode" in my own life in a previous firm I worked in - and I wish I'd seen it clearly for what it was at the time it was going on and I would have dealt with things very differently. Hindsight in my own case tells me that it would have been the end of it if I had just said clearly "You're my manager. Thats what it is, all it is and all it ever will be. YOU are married and I am not interested. End of.....". In your case I don't know if your boss is pushier than the former manager of mine and you might need to act more firmly with him than that even...only you know that.

Take care.

bristol_pilot

Sexual harassment is unwanted conduct of a sexual nature. I think it is clear that this behaviour is, broadly, of a sexual nature and it is clear in your long post that is is unwanted by you. However, at no time do you seem to have made it clear to him that his behaviour is unwanted. Quite the opposite in fact. By doing and saying nothing, I'm afraid this is likely to be taken by the other person as consent. I doubt that your boss sees himself as unattractive and smelly. Seeing it from his point of view I would think your behaviour to be friendly. Most people make it quite clear if they don't want to be touched, whispered to etc. You have not done so. You cannot expect him to read your mind, you are being a bit unfair in expecting him to somehow know how you feel without you telling him. This needs to be nipped it the bud - ask for a meeting with him, pointing out some of his behaviours that you don't like and say that you don't want him to continue. There is a very good chance that he will desist once this has been pointed out to him. If he then continues, make it official.

ceridwen

Second practical action to take right now. Buy the book "A woman in your own right" by Anne Dickson.

There are loads of copies of it for sale on Amazon and its possible to get one for only 1p (plus postage).

That woman knows of what she speaks - and I wish I had encountered her ideas years before I did so.

jessd_2

Thank you all for your comments, I cant believe you read all that. I have read the responses several times, I will try and take the advice on board. I will definitely join the union, good idea.

There is about 2500 staff, he is 2 spots away from the top job, but there are 5 other managers at his level.

My colleague has since left the company, I knew she was leaving at the time I confided in her. She urged me to go to HR but understood why I couldn't. I felt I had no proof so she urged me to start a diary (I have) but it just felt like a load of petty nothingness, if I can be persuaded of an innocent explanation for every little incident then so could HR. If I go to HR my career (ha ha) there is over. I do think they will investigate it fairly, find no proof, he will explain it all away. Then word will leak out, it always does, and it will all end up being my fault, despite most people not liking him they will take his side because he is the boss, he has all the power. Then where will I be.. I couldn’t possibly continue to work for him (not that I want to now any way). My colleague never witnessed his behaviour but told me that she had always felt uncomfortable around him and she clearly does not like him and fully believed my account of events. She offered to go to HR with me and was very supportive, but she is not a witness.

Yes although I say no one seems to 'see' I totally feel that my reputation has been tarnished, I dread to think what some must think of me. You are so spot on about the 'pet' comment, I feel it from some of my colleagues.

I do now have strategies in place for dealing with him when he starts with certain things but have not had to use them of late. I am going to think of some suitable responses to inappropriate comments - I will try to keep them polite but firm. The trouble is it has been going on for so long now, that I feel rediculous for only now objecting - like about being called sweetheart.

I have not yet been alone with him outside the office and just thinking about such a situation leaves me feeling panic. Due to the nature of my role this could happen.

But even now I still don’t quite get that this is real. And although I say how angry I am, I feel quite detached from it at the same time.

I understand the comment that I have not made my feelings clear, I guess I thought my body language was clear, the changes in my appearance etc, stepping back when he invades my space, that sort of thing. I thought that was showing him I didn’t like it. By not responding when he made an inappropriate comment, I thought this was a response. I do now realise this is foolish.

I know I am now making excuses but I don’t feel like I can confront him. But if I have to, do I raise things as they happen, what if all his senior team are there, do I say in front of everyone. Or do I wait until they have gone and then mention it. Or could I just renew my efforts with the diary..

Thank you for the book tip, will go over to amazon now and have a look.

ceridwen

1. Keep up the diary.
2. Maintain contact with this (former) colleague.
3. Do your darndest not to be outside the workplace with this man. If you are absolutely forced into this - make sure you are in sight of other people (other people on public transport, other people at the bar in a hotel, etc) and have a rape alarm on you.
4. Do not hesitate to use the rape alarm if you feel it necessary - at the first blast from that he will probably back back in surprise/confusion and it should, hopefully, be enough to get him to keep his hands off you. If he persists - keep pressing it - to summon help (NB: if you suspect this incident will occur in advance - earplugs for yourself would be useful - they are LOUD!).
5. Does your mobile phone have a camera function on it? If not - swop to one that does and get well used to using it. If he ever does anything that "merits" a photograph - take one (eg if he is missing any of his clothing shall we say?).
6. If indeed your reputation is "tarnished" it will be so only in the eyes of the unperceptive and unfriendly. Those who are perceptive, decent people will see "how the land lies" (ie he's a creep). Anyone who thinks badly of YOU because of what HE is like isnt much of a person and it says a good deal more about them than it does about you. There's ALWAYS detractors/unbelievers/etc (darn it!) - we've seen it on Gwen's thread after all (the worst of which has now been deleted by MSE abuse thankfully). One always has to wonder what motivates some of them....
7. Yes - it often doesnt feel "real" at the time its happening and the mind constructs other explanations (sometimes things do become clearer in hindsight and/or seeing things through other peoples eyes). That doesnt mean it isnt "real" - IT IS.
8. So what if he does something you are uncomfortable with in front of his senior team? Reply to him in exactly the same way you would if you were on your own - ie politely but VERY FIRMLY eg "Will you take your hands off me please? I DONT like it" in a loud voice (repeated however many times you need to) and move firmly away
(accompanied by a "look of steel" on your face - the expression to aim for is utter coldness/utter disdain/ICE - if put into words that expression would be "I have a dagger in my hand and would stick it straight into you and not think twice - and it wouldnt bother me ONE LITTLE BIT"). It IS possible to put a look like that on your face that unmistakably says exactly that without uttering a word...
It is even more important for you to tell him "hands off" in front of the senior team than when you are alone with him - you will have made it plain to other people as well what is happening and that you disagree with it.
9. Get that Anne Dickson book asap and don't get up off that sofa that evening until you have finished reading it cover-to-cover (her advice WORKS). As I said before I only wish I'd read it sooner. I've had to put it in practice since then - and been grateful for what I learned from her.

Personally - and I can only speak personally - I would have a mental image of myself in my own mind when near him. That mental image is "Ice Queen" (think there was some character in a Disney film or the like that was like that??). This is what I would picture myself as being when I was anywhere near him - complete with icicles "radiating out from me" ready to pierce him if he came near me (remembering to "take the image down" as soon as I was safely out of his vicinity - don't want to put other people off too....). The day he referred to me as "Icy Knickers" or the like I'd know it had worked and I'd won that battle. I would be mentally wearing a protective all-enveloping cloak of white fur and if he came closer to me than I liked I'd be picturing "rays of ice" coming out through my eyes at him and my hand being raised throwing an icicle straight into him. But - thats me and thats how I personally would be with a man like that...

danlojo

Didn't want to read and run.

Good luck (if that's the right word?) for today.

Be strong and don't let him get away with this anymore.:mad:

Would it help if you said you had a new partner, do you think he'd back off then?

Take care

gemini12

You must take some action by first telling your boss his attentions are very unwelcome and that you wish to resume your previous professional relationship.

Continue to keep your diary and also note when you have made it clear that you are not interested in him. Individual incidents may seem petty but they should be viewed as a whole.

If the harassment continues follow your companies policy on sexual harassment and consult your union (when you have joined).

My OH had this at work and he ended up in such a state that he had to leave a job he loved and due to what happened to him has not been able to work since and has severe depression and agoraphobia. I am not trying to worry you just to point out that this sort of thing can leave lasting problems.

Good luck and I hope you can resolve this.

heretolearn_2

This is tricky as each individual incident hasn't been that bad, it's the cumulative effect that's creating harassment, and I do think it is harassment. But it's still at the fairly harmless - if uncomfortable - stages and I think that to be fair, you should give him a strong message that you do not want this. Right now you've been going along with things apart from a very passive-aggressive response of 'cold shoulder' which I hate to say this idiot has probably seen as playing hard to get (I agree you were wise to keep out of that late meeting). I can also imagine that your colleagues imagine the two of you are having an affair so that's why they turn a blind eye.

What I would do:

1) Tell my colleagues that you are not happy with the way your boss acts right now and that you intend to do something about it. In fact, every large office has one or two older 'mumsy' types who tend to know everything that's going on and gossip a lot. Go to them, tell them your problem, and ask for their advice. That should get the truth out on the grapevine. Right now it's probably effecting your career and you need to get your side over.

2) Write to your boss, keeping a copy of course. There's no need to be nasty or accusative, keep it cool and professional. State that your working relationship has changed in the past few months in a way that makes you uncomfortable. Say that you appreciate his being flexible with time etc to enable you to deal with a personal issue. However, you no longer wish to discuss this issue with him and you want your working relationship to return to the good and professional one you've had for many years. Say that you are not accepting being called 'Sweetheart' any more and that you do not wish him to instigate any physical contact with you in future. If these things happen again you will have to go to HR with a complaint.

Say that you've always thought it best to keep working relationships on a strictly professional standing, and appreciate his understanding in this.