How can they complete an ESA85 to send me to medical WITHOUT my ESA50?

eskimo26

Has anyone else had the problem of receiving an ATOS medical letter BEFORE you've even sent off the ESA50? My understanding is they have to prove you require a medical with a pre-board check using your ESA50 to produce an ESA85. So how can they do that without my ESA50?! I'll be flat out of energy soon then i'll pass things over to my local MP, we'll see what the response is from DWP and ATOS tomorrow i'm quite sure its a huge breach of either contract or Government legislation.

But so far the department dealing with my claim has been beyond incompetent, yesterday they swore black and blue in a brusque manner that i would have to go to medical regardless, no mention of a pre-board check, no time to contact GP for a home medical letter or request details of there medical staff to check there qualifications. All that is done through the ESA50 and they haven't bothered to wait for it. I rang in for an extension and they said they would 'put a note on my record' next thing i know ATOS is in contact and trying to get me to medical by stealth!

Now the department won't speak to me because 'you've been passed to ATOS so there's nothing we can do anymore speak to them.' What rubbish i've e-mailed them to make things clear since they won't let we talk on the phone.

I'm curious of people's thoughts on this. The Government should give you a degree with all the hoops you have to jump through. Also ATOS and the DWP playing down the role of the pre-board assessment and telling you not to send in medical evidence is disgusting.

dmg24

Calm down, stop thinking about all the people that are committing suicide and concentrate on your own claim!

Do you have mental health problems? Sometimes sending an ESA50 is deemed unsuitable and a medical is arranged as an alternative.

Edit: OK, you've completely changed your post whilst I was typing. Will start again ...

dmg24

eskimo26 wrote: »

Has anyone else had the problem of receiving an ATOS medical letter BEFORE you've even sent off the ESA50? My understanding is they have to prove you require a medical with a pre-board check using your ESA50 to produce an ESA85. So how can they do that without my ESA50?! I'll be flat out of energy soon then i'll pass things over to my local MP, we'll see what the response is from DWP and ATOS tomorrow i'm quite sure its a huge breach of either contract or Government legislation.

But so far the department dealing with my claim has been beyond incompetent, yesterday they swore black and blue in a brusque manner that i would have to go to medical regardless, no mention of a pre-board check, no time to contact GP for a home medical letter or request details of there medical staff to check there qualifications. All that is done through the ESA50 and they haven't bothered to wait for it. I rang in for an extension and they said they would 'put a note on my record' next thing i know ATOS is in contact and trying to get me to medical by stealth!

Now the department won't speak to me because 'you've been passed to ATOS so there's nothing we can do anymore speak to them.' What rubbish i've e-mailed them to make things clear since they won't let we talk on the phone.

I'm curious of people's thoughts on this. The Government should give you a degree with all the hoops you have to jump through. Also ATOS and the DWP playing down the role of the pre-board assessment and telling you not to send in medical evidence is disgusting.

Did you not send your form in late? This is why they have requested you go to a medical.

A pre board check establishes if you need a medical. However, with some conditions they will send you for a medical regardless, so whilst it is good practice, it isn't going to change things.

If you feel that you require a home medical, ask your GP for a letter and ask ATOS for a fax number to send it over to them.

Why do you need to check the clinicians qualifications?

Seriously though, calm down.

eskimo26

I was going to post it on the black triangle page on facebook hence the part about suicides, the page is dedicated to such a case. I decided an advice forum would make more sense so i pasted and copied it in then editted when i realised the mistake.

With regards to my ESA50 as i mentioned in the original post they haven't recieved it yet I still have it, that's the whole issue. As i said i rang in for an extension as per the instructions and the next thing i know all this happens. I'm very much aware that a medical is standard practise but also aware of there obligations (or so i thought) and one of them is to carry out a pre-board check.

Calming down is easier said then done when your family is telling you everyday that 'its not worth it and to give up on it'. For the record I have CFS and moderate depression except in the cold months when its severe due to SAD. I am taking Duluxetine which was starting to work right up to the point ATOS contacted me and my family started guilt tripping me to drop it.

So yes i'm a little stressed out so apologies in advance for the splurging nature of my post. Thankyou for any advice.

dmg24

If they decided that your reason for requesting an extension was not good enough, they would go ahead regardless.

dmg24

I've just looked at that FB page - seems to be lots of unsubstantiated stuff on there, I would give it a wide berth.

eskimo26

They didn't ask me for a reason, there was no discussion of an extension or lack of, and no dialogue beyond 'i'll put it on your record.' AOS on the other hand has agreed an extension which is fine but they have also agreed a date for medical which says to me that they are trying to sweep the pre-board under the carpet. (If there sending a medical they are either being very pushy in the hope you have no idea of protocol or they are trying to skip or play down the pre-board examination in the hope that you have no idea of protocol.)

The reason I am asking to check there 'clinicians' qualifications is because they are not 'clinicians' but HCPs ('Health care professionals') the majority of which seem to be anything but qualified. It has been argued some conditions must be looked at by a specialist during the medical and this appears not to be happening.

I am simply following advice a lot of which i found on this website, this includes:

Fighting for a home visit because Atos generally count the fact that you managed to get to there medical as a fact of admission that you are healthy enough to travel, walk or use public transport on a regular basis which they add to there report. Also the fact that you are watched in the waiting room and your behaviour reported to the HCP who puts it in there report.

Insist that you recieve a copy of the tape of the medical as ATOS and the DWP are now obliged to provide one on request whereas previously ATOS would threaten to stop the medical or hand you a sheet saying 'recording will not be admissible in appeal' just for taking notes or having someone along to take notes.

Despite Atos insisting you do not send medical evidence if you feel that you qualify for one of the limited capacity for work related activity descriptors then, "If one descriptor applies to the claimant, they will be placed in the support group and will receive the Support Component in their ESA. They will not have to attend work focused interviews or a work focused health related assessment." I have seen numerous posts were people have had success with this method by sending off this info. during the pre-board review which is why i want to know what happened to my pre-board review...

There is also a list of conditions which are unsuitable to be called to a medical examination which ATOS seems to be not bothered about at all.

Now i'd like to thank you for getting me emotive enough to type this out despite now being exhausted, this can act as somewhat of a checklist and I no longer need to keep 15 windows of internet sources open just to stay on top of this. I'm imagining as I get more fatigued by this my memory and concentration will disappear so this should be useful. Thankyou.

dmg24 wrote: »

I've just looked at that FB page - seems to be lots of unsubstantiated stuff on there, I would give it a wide berth.

Ah ok well thankyou for help regardless, the FB page is the tip of the iceburg with regards to my research and the sources i've seen from others in the same situation.

Does anyone know more about my problem please? I will update tomorrow for those in a similar predicament.
Thankyou for all help!

dmg24

You are reading all this stuff and it is not helping you at all. As I said before, concentrate on your own case, not what has happened to other people.

If you sent the form back and they had then called you for a medical, would you still be complaining?

Do you actually need a home medical? If so, please do not try to play the system, it makes it all the more difficult for those who do.

HCPs are clinicians. They are allowed to do your medical.

Do you have a CPN? You need to speak to someone about this, as you are going to make yourself more ill if you are unable to keep this in perspective.

cit_k

eskimo26 wrote: »

They didn't ask me for a reason, there was no discussion of an extension or lack of, and no dialogue beyond 'i'll put it on your record.' AOS on the other hand has agreed an extension which is fine but they have also agreed a date for medical which says to me that they are trying to sweep the pre-board under the carpet. (If there sending a medical they are either being very pushy in the hope you have no idea of protocol or they are trying to skip or play down the pre-board examination in the hope that you have no idea of protocol.)

Complain.

eskimo26 wrote: »

The reason I am asking to check there 'clinicians' qualifications is because they are not 'clinicians' but HCPs ('Health care professionals') the majority of which seem to be anything but qualified.

It would be very unusual for a assessor not to be qualified, as by legislation they have to be a practising doctor or nurse or therapist or whatever, and member of a professional body such as GMC etc.

eskimo26 wrote: »

It has been argued some conditions must be looked at by a specialist during the medical and this appears not to be happening.

People can argue that, but its not legislated anywhere, and that is al that matter.

eskimo26 wrote: »

I am simply following advice a lot of which i found on this website, this includes:

Fighting for a home visit because Atos generally count the fact that you managed to get to there medical as a fact of admission that you are healthy enough to travel, walk or use public transport on a regular basis which they add to there report. Also the fact that you are watched in the waiting room and your behaviour reported to the HCP who puts it in there report.

Fighting for a home visit on those grounds, and those grounds only, I would consider an act of fraud.

eskimo26 wrote: »

Insist that you recieve a copy of the tape of the medical as ATOS and the DWP are now obliged to provide one on request whereas previously ATOS would threaten to stop the medical or hand you a sheet saying 'recording will not be admissible in appeal' just for taking notes or having someone along to take notes.

There will not be any tape to request, ATOS does not record medicals as standard.
You have to request via atos/dwp that the medical be recorded by atos, and they will do so, if ATOS and the assessor agrees to the recording, only then would a tape be made available to you.
If it was recorded by atos, you would not have to request the tape, you would be given one of the copies as a matter of course.

eskimo26 wrote: »

There is also a list of conditions which are unsuitable to be called to a medical examination which ATOS seems to be not bothered about at all.

There are some published exemptions if I recall, there is another long list floating about on the internet, but I am unconvinced that list has anything to do with ESA.

eskimo26

I have to apologise as i'm getting to tired to continue and the system won't let me post links.

Firstly there is no way I have the stamina or mental acuity to journey 1hour 16 mins, including a bus change, a train and 25 mins of walking punctuated throughout. My only option is to catch a lift via my Mother and that still includes a 12 min. walk from the car park. Is my Mother obligated to give me a lift and miss out on a days wages? If not then why should i do aTOS any favours?

If you sent the form back and they had then called you for a medical, would you still be complaining?

Yes! This is the whole issue.

This is the guide for how the descriptors for the support group can be used. I've seen it in the official manual the Government gives out to its staff:

"If one descriptor applies to the claimant, they will be placed in the support group and will receive the Support Component in their ESA. They will not have to attend work focused interviews or a work focused health related assessment."

I have seen numerous posts were people have had success with this method by sending off this information during the pre-board review which is why i want to know what happened to my pre-board review.

EDIT: just to pre-empt this yes i do think i fit one of the descriptors and yes it may be unlikely to work but the chance should be there if nothing else to save a lot of money and time and so that the structures given by the Government are seen to be cohesive and transparent.

Regardless thank you for the concern for my health, ironically I was quite stoic and determined in dealing with the whole thing right up to the point my family battered me with a barrage of negativity.

Anyway i've done all i can, i'm going to concentrate on finishing the ESA50 and taking it to CAB tomorrow if i have the energy, which i didn't today.

Also with regards to the area where you said complain not only did the lady not give me an extension she asked if I could 'fill in the front and send it in'. What would that achieve aside from wasting everyones time. Imagine how many people haven't known the relevance of the ESA50 and actually followed that advice because they were to sick to fill the form out.

I'm also aware i'm speaking to two different poeple apologies the reply is not structure more coherently to reflect this.

cit_k

You would probably find that atos wont be bothered in the slightest about breaking pre-board rules, they may pretend to be, and apologise in writing after a 'investigation' and say measures will be taken etc etc, but the medical is likely to go ahead anyways I would imagine.

I had a problem where I was sent for medical, they did not read the form properly, so therefore the pre-board that was done could not be relied upon as a reliable report, so technically, I should have had another new one done before they considered calling me for a medical.

Nope, did not happen, just a apology after the complaint, but medical went ahead based on flawed preboard report.

The preboard report would probably just say there is no evidence and you need an assessment anyways in most cases I would think.

I did not actually point out to them that the medical should not go ahead until a new pre-board report was done though, perhaps if I had, things may have been different?

As for home visit, if you can get there by a lift from a family member, you should have no problem with a taxi..

Explain the need for a taxi, provide medical evidence if required and ask if they will refund taxi-fares.
This needs to be done in advance though, dont just get a taxi there and expect to be paid for it on the ady iunless they have agreed in advance.