LED light bulbs

sillygoose

Ah! now it seems you have got it, following an internet link can be a bit tricky for some I know, once I read past your customary lenghty insults as usual.

Yes give em a go. I have some faith that those glass GU10 shells that normally have to cope with a 50 watt incandescent lamp, most of which goes into heat, will be able to cope with a couple of watts from the LEDS, but as you love to tell us, and tell us, and tell us.. your the expert... get busy!

Would love to browse your feedback sometime by the way.

elstimpo

sillygoose wrote: »

Ah! now it seems you have got it, following an internet link can be a bit tricky for some I know, once I read past your customary lenghty insults as usual.

Yes give em a go. I have some faith that those glass GU10 shells that normally have to cope with a 50 watt incandescent lamp, most of which goes into heat, will be able to cope with a couple of watts from the LEDS, but as you love to tell us, and tell us, and tell us.. your the expert... get busy!

Would love to browse your feedback sometime by the way.

Are you seriously suggesting to me, that you did not post a link to the first LED spot products i bought that were green when i tested them and only by sheer coincidence did i stumble upon an LED Spot on ebay,(where there are tens of thousands of LED Spots for sale), that is made by the same manufacturer, sold by the same UK company, for the same price, with the same quantities, using the same chip sets, same technology, same lack of heat dissipation as the one you now claim you linked to? Lost for words.

Are you now admitting that the casing of the LED spots you recommend are the same as standard Halogens? Even after your claimed it was 'utter, total tosh' ? This would suggest you are conceding there is nothing built into the casing to dissipate heat, which in turn means the spot will waste huge amounts of energy that is lost through heat. Exactly the same as a halogen? So whats the point of them?

As i have said from the very start, effective heat dissipation technology and a quality chip set are not cheap and are certainly not found in cheap LED products. You need both (and more) to get an LED product that will actually deliver what all LED bulbs claim they will.

Oh and by the way, i don't sell anything ebay. A selection of my customers feedback is available on my website.

Scoobs72

Guys, isn't this all a bit pointless? Of course elstimpo's bulb is better than the ebay ones...it's costs several times as much. What the important thing is, is which one is better value. So how about a scorecard once the bulb has been through elstimpo's lab:

- 10 points for each lumen per watt each bulb has
- deduct 50 points for each 100k deviation from 2750K warm white
- deduct 10 points per £ each bulb costs (retail price)
- add 100 points for each 12 months the bulb is guaranteed

What say's ya?

WestonDave

elstimpo wrote: »

This would suggest you are conceding there is nothing built into the casing to dissipate heat, which in turn means the spot will waste huge amounts of energy that is lost through heat. Exactly the same as a halogen? So whats the point of them?.

Not being funny, but if they don't waste huge amounts of energy via heat, why do they need any means of dissipating heat. It certainly isn't the case that a system for dissipating heat makes them lose less energy via heat, it simply means the chip etc are less likely to cook themselves in their own heat. :question: Me thinks you are so keen to win this argument you are confusing yourself.

elstimpo

Scoobs72 wrote: »

Guys, isn't this all a bit pointless? Of course elstimpo's bulb is better than the ebay ones...it's costs several times as much. What the important thing is, is which one is better value. So how about a scorecard once the bulb has been through elstimpo's lab:

- 10 points for each lumen per watt each bulb has
- deduct 50 points for each 100k deviation from 2750K warm white
- deduct 10 points per £ each bulb costs (retail price)
- add 100 points for each 12 months the bulb is guaranteed

What say's ya?

With all due respect, it's just not as simple as your score chart would have it. Any company could make an extremely cheap, extremely bright bulb at 2750k color with a long warranty. But that's completely missing the point and not what LED's are about.

Your scoring system doesn't takes into account the quality of the heat dissipation, the quality of the chipset, the quality of the manufacturing, the conditions and pay the workers at the manufacturers are subjected to etc etc. These are incredibly important aspects. Without proper heat dissipation the bulb will not save you money or energy and it's life will be seriously reduced. A cheap chip set can fail at any time. I could go on.

The heat dissipation R+D and implementation costs large amounts of money. The company that makes the chip sets for the LED Bulbs i currently sell also makes chip sets for NASA. The best chipset makers control the supply in the market below demand, keeping prices high. Cree are considered the best chipsets currently out there but they are very expensive. Some of the own brand Asian stuff, such as Epistar, is getting better, but it's still not cheap.

Guarantees and warranties is also difficult. 2 years is standard for a factory, occasionally you will find 3, but it's not the length of the warranty that's important, it's whats behind it. I get offered Spots from manufacturers on a daily basis where they quote all sorts of nonsense about 5 year warranties. You ever have a problem with a bulb, try contacting the factory and getting them to deal with you. They won't. If they are making cheap products, then they can't afford to start handing out free bulbs for every one that fails as there will be a high % fail rate. So it's really how solid, professional and ethical the company behind the warranty is, rather than the length.

If you still want to conduct your points test, then by all means, but for me the results would not be worth much. There is also absolutely no comparison to the bulbs i stock and these spots sillygoose recommends. It's like comparing a picture my 2 year old child created to a Picasso ! Jokes aside, they couldn't be more different as products and what they offer.

Scoobs72

elstimpo wrote: »

Any company could make an extremely cheap, extremely bright bulb at 2750k color with a long warranty. But that's completely missing the point and not what LED's are about.

With respect elstimpo, I think you've lost the plot here. A company that can make a cheap, bright, bulb @2750k is exactly what us purchasers want. I don't give two hoots about the quality of the heat dissipation and chipset as long as it is bright enough, has a nice colour temperature, colour rendition, and lasts long enough. Once the bulb is in its GU10 fitting I want to be done with it - I don't get my mates round to compare bulbs with each other.

So if you admit that it's possible to buy cheap, bright bulbs with a good colour temperature, what exactly is it you're offering for your bulbs that are a multiple of the price of the cheap ones? The 'comfort' of a warranty for which all we have is your word that it will be honoured? How do we know your company will be around 12 months from now if the bulb goes bang? It seems to me you've got lost in the science of it all, losing sight of what the end customer really wants.

elstimpo

Scoobs72 wrote: »

With respect elstimpo, I think you've lost the plot here. A company that can make a cheap, bright, bulb @2750k is exactly what us purchasers want. I don't give two hoots about the quality of the heat dissipation and chipset as long as it is bright enough, has a nice colour temperature, colour rendition, and lasts long enough. Once the bulb is in its GU10 fitting I want to be done with it - I don't get my mates round to compare bulbs with each other.

So if you admit that it's possible to buy cheap, bright bulbs with a good colour temperature, what exactly is it you're offering for your bulbs that are a multiple of the price of the cheap ones? The 'comfort' of a warranty for which all we have is your word that it will be honoured? How do we know your company will be around 12 months from now if the bulb goes bang? It seems to me you've got lost in the science of it all, losing sight of what the end customer really wants.

I haven't lost any plot. If all you want is a cheap, bright bulb @2750k then why are you considering LED? Why not stick with Halogens as that's exactly that they are? They are cheaper than even cheap LED Spots, they provide a great light, they are the right color. Buy those. I'm not sure why you would be on an LED thread if thats the only criteria you have for a bulb?

The reason someone would buy an LED Bulb is that it's has a greatly increased lifespan, you can save up to 90% on energy consumption which in turn saves you large amounts on your lighting bills, it dramatically reduces your C02 emissions, it doesn't contain any toxic substances like Mercury and therefore it doesn't end up in landfill etc etc. If these aspects don't aren't attractive to you, then please do not buy any LED product.

I think i explained fully in my last message to you the difference between a quality LED product and a cheap one and i also explained that the warranty offered is usually not with the retailer, it's with the manufacturer.

Dan_Iggulden

Isn't it illegal for the warranty to be with the manufacturer?? My understanding is that the retailer has to hold the warranty, it is their responsibilty.

Anyway, I think we are losing sight why the majority of people are interested in LED, it is because they use 90% less energy than a Halogen therefore saving money on the electricity bill. All the other bits like CO2 emissions and toxic substances are all nice things to consider, but I don;t believe for one second they are the things that make the majority of people want to use an LED bulb.

This board is here to offer advice to people who want to know about LED bulbs..... it has turned into a childrens playground, if you want to have a back and forth slanging match, please take it to private message. Thank you.

elstimpo

Dan_Iggulden wrote: »

Isn't it illegal for the warranty to be with the manufacturer?? My understanding is that the retailer has to hold the warranty, it is their responsibilty.

Anyway, I think we are losing sight why the majority of people are interested in LED, it is because they use 90% less energy than a Halogen therefore saving money on the electricity bill. All the other bits like CO2 emissions and toxic substances are all nice things to consider, but I don;t believe for one second they are the things that make the majority of people want to use an LED bulb.

This board is here to offer advice to people who want to know about LED bulbs..... it has turned into a childrens playground, if you want to have a back and forth slanging match, please take it to private message. Thank you.

This is a very helpful article on Sale of Goods act and manufacturer warranties.
http://www.consumerrightsexpert.co.uk/shop-manufacturer-responsible-for-faulty-goods.html

Your are right, the C02 emissions and toxic element of non LED bulb might not be a big reason for people to buy LED bulbs, but i do hope that changes and changes quickly. Landfill in the UK due to run out in 10 years, the expense to tax payers of putting rubbish in landfill increasing all the time and with co2 emissions being incredibly harmful to environment, i hope consumers start to pay more attention to things like this.

Dan_Iggulden

Elstimpo, in an ideal world, I completely agree with you..... you are obviously passionate about these things and I have to commend you for that.