The Baxi Ecogen micro-CHP boiler

KenSharp

Andy_WSM wrote: »

No, grid connected microgeneration in the UK must have "anti-islanding" which means in the event of a power failure all solar systems, small wind turbines, CHP boilers must disconnect themselves from the grid to prevent electrocution of any repair engineers locally who would assume that as they have switched off the grid the cables must be dead.

That isn't relevant. Backup power is obviously going to be an island. Of course it can be used as backup but...

Silent_Dancer wrote: »

In addition to auto-islanding the unit needs an electricity supply to start.

..that is very relevant! You would need enough backup-backup to get the system up to temperature, unless it's already running.

It could be used as an expensive backup with the right equipment in-place.

gawnieg

Does anyone who has owned one of these systems have a figure for servicing?

MatthewGaskin

I've seen on the Inland Revenue's pages that Micro CHP boilers qualify for the lower rate of VAT on both the boiler and the installation costs (unless it's as part of a larger job, such as an extension). It may be that all of the installation costs mentioned above factored this in - I sure hope so - but I thought I'd mention it as I'd not seen it discussed as part of this thread.

As I'm about to replace my 23yo boiler (as part of an extension: I'll miss out on the VAT saving) I'm following Micro CHP options with interest.

Smiley_Dan

Silly question, but this is a natural gas boiler right? Just wondering why it's in this forum...

KevinG

Smiley_Dan wrote: »

Silly question, but this is a natural gas boiler right? Just wondering why it's in this forum...

The one I've got is LPG but I'm sure they do natural gas models as well. My generator engine is being replaced today after having been out of action for over NINE MONTHS!

DBV

I had an Ecogen installed about a year ago and wanted to give a short report for anyone interested.
Key points are:
1. The relationship between Baxi (manufacturers) and British Gas (installers) seems dysfunctional. For example, Baxi specify a pressure tank they make which has a position for temperature sensor. BGas refuse to use this tank because it is more expensive than a standard tank. However, the result is you cannot measure the temperature properly to control the boiler and end up with the sensor cable tied to the pipe at the top of the tank. Anyone considering an installation should probably specify the tank.
2. The Ecogen consists of a standard boiler and a non-servicable bit that produces the electricity. Servicing costs should be the same as a standard boiler. However, we have now had a number of BGas engineers come in whilst they were sorting out installation issues, take one look at it, and walk out because they are not trained on the Ecogen and are nervous about the electricity generation side of it. We have not yet had to pay for a service.
3. The electricity production seems to work as advertised. We measured 1800 units in the first year of operation.
4. There is a certain amount of vibration from the unit which produces the electricity, and the boiler is heavy, so a good solid wall is required. Brick-built garages are recommended by BGas, but we have it in a boiler cupboard in the kitchen area and the noise is acceptable.
5. BGas initially told us it was not suitable for London properties with steps, but we managed to install it in a basement with about ten steps down to it. BGas have health and safety issues about getting it up and down the steps, but in our case two builders picked it up and carried it down the steps while the BGas guys went back to the truck for the lifting gear.
6. The boiler has two burners. The first runs at 5kW, and when it is running flat out maximum electricity is delivered (1kW). If more heat is demanded, then no more electricity is produced. The most efficient way to run the boiler, for electricity production, is at a steady 5kW.
7. The controller for the boiler is somewhat frustrating in that the Ecomode does not seem to work. This should set the hot water to heat up at a 5kW rate so you generate the most electricity. It seems to me that what you want to do as a user is use the electricity as it is produced. If you could turn the boiler on early morning, and set it to 5kW, to boost up the hot water, and set the washing machine timer to turn on at the same time, you would be able to do this. The controller does not allow you to specify when the hot water is heated.
8. In practice, the best efficiency I have managed to achieve is about 7% instead of the theoretical 20%.
9. It seems to me the boiler should work well with underfloor heating, where you keep a low level of heat running over a long period. However, BGas refuse to get involved in underfloor heating. It's possible that lowering the flow temperature of the boiler would raise the efficiency, but nobody seems able to advise on that. The idea is that it would run at a lower power for longer.
10. The electricity production works well in combination with solar panels, as the boiler electricity production picks up in winter when the solar panels start to fade. Boiler and solar panels together produce more than enough units to supply our four bedroom house for a year, but not always at the same time as we use it. We are getting better at running appliances when we are producing electricity. It would be nice to be able to automate this a little more.
11. I get the impression Baxi are still working hard on developing the Ecogen.

Robwiz

DBV – thanks for the update. I tried to investigate the Ecogen last autumn but never got a call back from British Gas and other accredited installers I spoke to gave the impression that Baxi was selling all its output in the Netherlands.

The idea of producing electricity at the same time as heat was the Ecogen's attraction for me for winter generation. The Flow Energy micro CHP will be launched later this year so it will be interesting to compare the two products.

kristy5395

I live in Peterborough and just had a company GM Energy fit one for me. I found them on the MCS website.

Robwiz

kristy5395 wrote: »

I live in Peterborough and just had a company GM Energy fit one for me. I found them on the MCS website.

Thanks for the info. Was the boiler available from stock or did you have to wait? Could you give an idea of what the installer charged to supply and fit?

Lucene

I think the sole reason that people can't get the financials working on a stirling CHP is that from 2008 on there was an expectation that fuel cell CHP would enter the market soon, so the FIT is based on fuel cell efficiency and not stirling or gas engine efficiency. You will still get the same electricity output as 1 Kw stays 1 Kw, so your FIT income stays the same, but a fuel cell consumes less gas per Kw.

As Baxi Innotech teamed up with Toshiba a new model is expected to enter the market which will replace the Ecogen (and the Gamma) in time.