A little experiment....

BexTech

albertross wrote:

kettles have a thermostat.. I suggest you try your test again, and do it scientifically, you can't save money by having it on all the time with the same weather conditions, and thermostat temperatures, it is commonsense.

OK kettles, do have a thermostat to knock them off.

Right, strange then how after several tests we saved money by having it switched on 24/7. But hey don't let the truth get in the way.

The thing you and possibly others seem to be forgetting, is that people use the hot water during the 24 hours. No point in comparing heating the water up for so many hours and then not using with keeping the water heated and not using it. You need to compare heating the water up for so many hours per day and using the water with keeping it heated 24/7 and using it.

It doesn't matter what nonsense you want to spout, it doesn't alter the fact that for us it DID work out cheaper to leave it on 24/7, none of your posts can alter that true fact, it was tested several times, and the same result was for us it was cheaper, it's purely as simple as that, if you don't want to believe the truth then don't hey no problem to me that you think you know different, when I know the true results we got.

It's pointless going over and over, you thinking you are right, and me knowing I AM right, it's silly because you can't alter the fact it WAS cheaper for us 24/7.

BexTech

albertross wrote:

It's not me spouting the nonsense..

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=266201&highlight=kettle

I'm not disputing your findings, but your methods.

It was the only method available, for 2 weeks run the hot water 24/7 and take gas readings, (not heating used) then for 2 weeks set the hot water to come on for so many hours per day and take gas readings, this test has been repeated several times over the years and each time we used less gas with the hot water system on 24/7.

The hot water system has pretty good insulation, unlike a kettle which has none, although the system is 'on' 24/7 doesn't mean it's a constant heating up, just topping up here and there.

As I said for us, it was cheaper on 24/7.

masonic

Here we go again!

I think Bextech's findings can easily be explained by the inherant unreliability of some types of thermostat. When you heat water up from cold, thermostats can take a lot longer to react to the change in temperature, resulting in the water temperature being higher, which explains the extra energy used.

kat21

the answer is simple you should factor in how long it takes for you to heat the fabric of the building from cold each day before you reach the optium temp. I have found that by keeping the boiler on a lower setting thus maintaining the heat in the fabric of the building, you actually use less units of gas, this is because the boiler on a lower setting does not fire up as often.
all my family have adopted this practice and beleive me try it and see. same principle with the kettle it takes longer from cold than it does to pre heat at a reasonable temperature.
kat21
just common sense really when you think about it, how many of you have a nice warm house as soon as you switch your boiler on from cold? and look at how long the boiler is actually running during that warm up period.

masonic

kat21 wrote:

the answer is simple you should factor in how long it takes for you to heat the fabric of the building from cold each day before you reach the optium temp. I have found that by keeping the boiler on a lower setting thus maintaining the heat in the fabric of the building, you actually use less units of gas, this is because the boiler on a lower setting does not fire up as often.
all my family have adopted this practice and beleive me try it and see. same principle with the kettle it takes longer from cold than it does to pre heat at a reasonable temperature.

So you can compensate for the extra energy required to keep your heating on constantly by turning down your thermostat. Why not just turn down your thermostat?

kat21 wrote:

just common sense really when you think about it, how many of you have a nice warm house as soon as you switch your boiler on from cold? and look at how long the boiler is actually running during that warm up period.

Oh, so it is quicker and more convenient. Since when has that also meant cheaper?

Cardew

BexTech wrote:

So because you don't like the truth that for us it worked out cheaper having the hot water system switched on 24/7 than it did having it only come on certain time/s of the day you have to mock.

Well I'll tell you this, IT DID work out cheaper, so make stupid fun as much as you like.

For us it DID worked out cheaper, simple as that, for US it did.

Obviously if we are going away we are going to switch of the hot water, but when you have 6 people in the house only having the hot water come on for so many hours per day for us worked out dearer than just leaving it on all day and the gas topping up the heat now and then.

Not sure if you are just pretending to be thick, but the hot water has a thermostat, boiling a kettle or saucepan and leaving it on is not the same thing.

If you want to mistake attempted humour for mocking that is your problem; and why would I not like the truth?

For the results of any experiments to be valid, exactly the same conditions must be replicated. In this case exactly the same amount of water used, at the same time of the day, for exactly the same period of time and with exactly the same weather conditions.

i.e. almost impossible to replicate in a house.

So let me tell you S L O W L Y that it cannot be cheaper to leave hot water on all day than having it on a timer. It really does defy the laws of physics. Indeed why bother to have a timer fitted to any CH/HW system?

The problem is that people(and yes that does include you) make statements, with all the best intentions, that simply are wrong, plain wrong!! That in itself is not a problem - its your money; however when you wrongly advise other people it is perfectly valid for those statements to be contradicted.

To be perfectly serious. You maintain that switching off hot water for several hours a day uses more gas(hence costs more) than leaving it on permanantly. So why is not cheaper to leave it on permanantly when you go on holiday for 3 weeks? or away for a year?

There must be a reason!

BexTech

Post what you want.

It won't alter the fact of my experience.

I know for a FACT for us it was cheaper.

As I said I couldn't care less whether you want to believe it or not.

You can sit there and believe it to be wrong if it makes you happy, I don't know you, so couldn't care. I'll sit here happy in the knowledge for us it did work out cheaper.

Theories and practice are often different things.

I thought it maybe cheaper to heat up the boiler for certain parts of the day, but found in our circumstances it was cheaper to have the system on 24/7.

You can't change what is the fact, just because you don't like the answer.

I know what I know is right, you can only believe it is wrong, when what is wrong is your belief in that my true fact is wrong.

The statement I made was a true fact statement, for us it was cheaper, maybe if you have different needs for hot water during the day then having it come on certain hours of the day would be cheaper, but for our use it worked out cheaper having the hot water set on 24/7, being on 24/7 doesn't mean it's boiling away / on a constant heat.

Come on stop being silly, there is a difference in having the hot water on 24/7 and using that hot water during the 24 hour period and having the hot water on 24/7 and not being at home for a couple of weeks to use it. If you aren't going to be using hot water for a few weeks then there is no point in keeping it hot or heating it up, do you still have your hot water to come on for a few hours everyday when you aren't there? get real.

Just because you don't like the answer you don't need to post stupid things.

Doesn't matter what you post, it just ain't going to alter the result of my several findings.

Switching the hot water on and off relies too much on there being no one in the house for several hours of the day and for people to use water certain times of the day, and there to be only a few people in the house, turning hot water on and off doesn't work when you have a large family and one works days and the other works nights and hot water is used throughout the day, well not for us in our house with our hot water system.

BTW Physics was one of my best subjects at school, but then so were all sciences, though I chose electronics and then decided on my current profession in PC maintenance, though did do several years in programming.

So let me tell you V E R Y S L O W L Y , for us it WAS cheaper 24/7.

When we lived in a flat and it was electric only, so had E7 and there was only 3 of us, and was out 08:00 -17:30 for work, then it was cheaper to have the hot water on for so many hours in the day. Different situation, different hot water system, different result.

BexTech

masonic wrote:

Here we go again!

I think Bextech's findings can easily be explained by the inherant unreliability of some types of thermostat. When you heat water up from cold, thermostats can take a lot longer to react to the change in temperature, resulting in the water temperature being higher, which explains the extra energy used.

Could be.

We tested several times, because I thought this is strange, but that was the result we got, and we can't change the result, just so it fits in.

jennifernil

Never mind what is CHEAPER , why not do what suits you best? After all is that not the point of having central heating? Money saving can go too far, you do need to consider comfort.

We have a very well insulated house so we heat usually 06.30 to 09.00 and 17.00 to 22.00 when it is really cold, less if it is milder.

But our hot water requirements are less well defined due to many factors. So we have the hot water on all the time so we can use it when we need it, even at 3 am.

We have a 2800 sq foot ( 280 sq m) 5 bedroom, 4 public room house , and our gas bills are £60 monthly.