New boiler, but what to go for?

spinningsheep

Hi. My landlady has applied to the local authority for a grant towards the cost of new central heating, and it has been accepted, 50% of the cost. She is arranging for British Gas, and the firm she uses for all her plumbing/gas checks etc to come and do a survey etc, and I am guessing that BG will be way more expensive than the local firm and so will not get the work. She has a budget of about £1000 as her half, we need a boiler that will serve 9 rads, a towel rail, 2 bathrooms and an en-suite, and obviously TRV's on the rads. How much do you think the work would be approx and what boiler would suit? I have heard Worcester and Glow-worm are best, the current 20yr old boiler is a Glow-worm Fuelsaver 55F.

macman

Combi or conventional boiler? if the latter, what else will need replacing on the DHW side?

spinningsheep

Apologies it will be a combi so the current hot water tank will be removed.

macman

Are you sure about installing a combi in a house with 3 bath/shower rooms? You can only supply a single bath/shower at once even from a combi with a decent flow rate.

spinningsheep

Sorry I should have said, the showers are electric, only the baths and sinks (2 baths and 3 bathroom sinks, 1 kitchen sink).

spinningsheep

Plumber has been for a quote, he says big job. Looking at a 30kw Worcester Bosch Greenstar. Gas main is lead so needs to be replaced, but its in the wall/coving, so looking at running a new main round the outside of the house instead of through the lounge from the cellar. Also, main bathroom has no plumbing at all for hot water, and seems no pipework there at all, so will need a full install, means floors coming up. Boiler itself will be easiest part!!

Pincher

A budget of £1,000 + £1,000 is barely enough for a combi.

Since you have an existing cylinder, which implies existing hot water distribution infrastructure, you can keep it to save money.
Extending the hot water pipe to the bathrooms. If loft tank fed, a 3 bar pump makes sense.

Ideally, you have two bathrooms on the first floor supplied by the cylinder in a first floor airing cupboard. One ground floor bathroom and kitchen, supplied from the combi. The pipe run can go along the cellar ceiling, then through the floor into the kitchen and bathroom, which does not disturb the decor much.

I assume you mean the gas meter is in the cellar, which suggests you can have the boiler in the cellar close to the meter, which saves running the gas pipe all over the place. The flue can be extended quite a long distance to get to the outside.

You might as well get a floor standing boiler, which usually comes with a condensate pump, which you will need to drain the condensate from cellar level.

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/potterton-promax-fsb30he-floor-standing-regular-boiler-natural-gas/

I have one of these, comes with condensate pump, but you need an external circulation pump. Not a combi!

You can also get a separate condensate pump for a wall mounted boiler.

If you have a Saniflo pump in the cellar, probably for a washing machine, then you can get a wall mounted boiler, which just drains into the waste pipe handled by the Saniflo pump.

spinningsheep

Pincher wrote: »

A budget of £1,000 + £1,000 is barely enough for a combi.

Since you have an existing cylinder, which implies existing hot water distribution infrastructure, you can keep it to save money.
Extending the hot water pipe to the bathrooms. If loft tank fed, a 3 bar pump makes sense.

Ideally, you have two bathrooms on the first floor supplied by the cylinder in a first floor airing cupboard. One ground floor bathroom and kitchen, supplied from the combi. The pipe run can go along the cellar ceiling, then through the floor into the kitchen and bathroom, which does not disturb the decor much.

I assume you mean the gas meter is in the cellar, which suggests you can have the boiler in the cellar close to the meter, which saves running the gas pipe all over the place. The flue can be extended quite a long distance to get to the outside.

You might as well get a floor standing boiler, which usually comes with a condensate pump, which you will need to drain the condensate from cellar level.

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/potterton-promax-fsb30he-floor-standing-regular-boiler-natural-gas/

I have one of these, comes with condensate pump, but you need an external circulation pump. Not a combi!

You can also get a separate condensate pump for a wall mounted boiler.

If you have a Saniflo pump in the cellar, probably for a washing machine, then you can get a wall mounted boiler, which just drains into the waste pipe handled by the Saniflo pump.

Thanks. Unfortunately there would be nowhere to vent the boiler from the cellar as there is a main street right outside and no forcourt or anything to protect the flue, and there is also no mains supply down there for anything other than lighting, but the mains supply and meter etc is all down there, very damp cellar though so may not be ideal. Could a gas pipe simply be run upstairs, through the lounge up high by the coving (painted white) and into the kitchen following the same path as the exsisting lead pipes which are in the walls? The old supply could then be capped off. I am thinking minimum disruption here. The cost is not my concern as I rent. The hot water to upstairs issue is different. I would love to be able to use the bath in the main bathroom, as it has never been sat in! No hot water plumbing at all up there (was originally a box room, bathroom was downstairs behind kitchen, and the boiler was not powerful enough to get hot water up there, so they did not bother, even with pipework it seems) and there is no airing cupboard up there, and the plumber has recommended a combi, not a system boiler. I am more concernded about the gas pipe issue and the hot water as all my floors upstairs may have to come up!!

Pincher

Nobody wants disruption, but they all want the end result.

I look forward to the day when a "shower cubicle" is a teleport pod, transporting you to a Roman spa, where the shower is like a monsoon, and the shampoo flows freely.

If you can't even run a hot water pipe to a bathroom, well...

With the lounge, they typically run the pipes up a corner, and box them in. Yes, you will lose the corner coving. Horizontally, you usually lift the floorboards. You can of course, run them along the ceiling and box them in, losing more coving. You can also use lighting trough to make it look like it's meant for indrect lighting.

spinningsheep

Pincher, I was clear in saying, none of this is at my request, my landlady is replacing the boiler, i have no choice in whether it happens or not, and I am well aware a certain amount of disruption is unavoidable, we just weren't expecting floors to have to come up and allsorts. Also, there is no exsisting pipework for hot water, has not been since we moved in, there is electric showers and small Heatrae Sadia electric water heaters above each bathroom sink, the bath is cold plumbed only, so up until now, we were in blissful ignorance that the hot water pipes were not even there, we, and my landlady, assumed that they were in situ but not plumbed, which is what my landlady requested the plumber to do 5 years ago when the bathrooms were refitted.

Pincher

Hmm.....

Option 1

Hor water only. You put in a thermostatic mixer at the source of your one pipe system, where there is access to hot and cold water.
The water coming out is initially cold, like any hot tap, but then the hot water (which you set the temperature of by turning a knob on the mixer) keeps coming.

You can set the temperature for the domestic hot water coming out of the combi, which achieves the same thing.


Option 2

Remote control hot water.

http://www.rinnaiuk.com/5_Downloads/3_Corporate_Downloads_PDFs/2_Commercial_Hot_Water_Solutions_Brochure.pdf

Rinnai Infitinity 16i gas water allows you to have up to four controller pads (wired) around the house. The wireless version is not sold in the UK. You can set the gas water heater output temperature between 37 an 55 degrees C. So you can change the water temperature from your one pipe bathroom. Obviously hot only again. The 16i does not do central heating, so you will need a separate boiler.

Option 3

The source of your single pipe is connected to hot and cold supplies via a motorised selector valve. Depending on LIVE or disconnect, the single pipe is connected to hot or cold.
This can be done wired or wirelessly. You can have a battery powered (bathroom safe) remote control in the bathroom, which transmits on/off to a three pin socket, readily available, which drives the motorised valve.


Option 4

36024 Grohtherm Wireless

http://www.grohe.co.uk/m/25_794/page/modules/pn/article.php?part=view&action=view&product=36024G155&offset=0&amount=15


Obviously, Option 1 is cheapest and least disruptive.