Tenancy agreement through Estate Agent or WHSmith?

Guapa1

Hi all,

I've been renting my flat out for a year now and the tenancy agreement is about to expire, and my tenant is going to be moving a partner in.

We're happy to keep going, but I do want to make sure his partner is on the tenancy agreement too. Should I go back and sign a new one with the original estate agent or do you think this one will suffice seen as he's living there already?

Thanks in advance

BitterAndTwisted

Are W H Smith prepared to give you a written, cast-iron guarantee that it's a sensible agreement which couldn't be contested in court? If not, I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole!

As you sound like a novice landlord I would suggest in the strongest possible terms that you join a landlords association tout suite. You can acquire a proper draft agreement from them.

Also, please do credit-checks and take up references for this partner before you sign them up.

Guapa1

You're right, I'm a complete novice as I didn't buy my flat to rent, however circumstances... I've phoned the estate agent, and they have arranged an appointment for them to go and have the necessary work done. Thank you for your help.

BitterAndTwisted

Just because they call themselves agents does not mean that they have the first clue either! In any case you should still join a landlords association without delay. Agents need neither a decent grasp of the various Landlord & Tenant legislation nor professional qualifications to set up in business.

As the agents are only ever acting on your behalf, in law the final responsibility for everything always lies with you, the landlord. In view of that, to protect yourself and garner all the advice and help you may need in the future you really MUST join a landlords association and the joining fees can be offset against the rental-income for tax purposes in any case. You might find at some point that the fees could pay for themselves many times over. You'll only feel the need for guidance and advice once things start going wrong and no agent will protect you from that, especially if they've managed to draft a carp agreement with unenforceable terms and clauses which very many of them do. As threads on this forum bear testimony every single day of the week.

tbs624

Guapa1 wrote: »

You're right, I'm a complete novice as I didn't buy my flat to rent, however circumstances...

Did you seek Consent to Let from your Lender, if you bought this property on a standard residential mortgage, and have you got appropriate LL insurances in place?

Guapa1

Thank you for the reply B&T, I'm going to read up on the different associations now and how they differ. tbs624, that is the first thing I did, may not seem so by this thread, but I do like to do things properly.

Richard_Webster

The important thing is how the forms are completed.

The reality with an AST is that you want to make sure:

1. You can get the rent
2. You can get the tenant out if they do not go at the end of the period.

Having extra clauses in about things like cleaning windows is all very well but are you ever going to be bothered to enforce a clause like that.

What a hassle, taking proceedings to evict the tenant because he hasn't cleaned the windows every month - you would have to give evidence of having kept watch near the property so you could say that the windows definitely had not been cleaned when they should have been.

There will be lots of issues like this where frankly if the tenant is not very satisfactory it is a lot easier to give the statutory notices and evict on that ground rather than messing around trying to use some extra clause in a tenancy agreement. So for that reason I can't see much point in having a fancy agreement with lots of things in it that you could never really prove in practice.

In this case OP has to be careful that the partner has been validly added and that may a reason for getting the agents to deal with it. Also if they get it wrong then he has some come back.

tbs624

Richard_Webster wrote: »

Having extra clauses in about things like cleaning windows is all very well but are you ever going to be bothered to enforce a clause like that.

What a hassle, taking proceedings to evict the tenant because he hasn't cleaned the windows every month - you would have to give evidence of having kept watch near the property so you could say that the windows definitely had not been cleaned when they should have been.

LL would of course be wasting his time and money in trying to repossess on such grounds.

See OFT guidance on overly prescriptive window cleaning clauses et al: yes, it's guidance and has to be tested in a court of law but remember too that a S8, G12 is a *discretionary* Ground. I have yet to hear about a case in which a LL has been granted possession on the grounds of the Ts refusal to get to grips with the windolene on a regular basis

Provided the windows are as clean at the end of the tenancy as they were at the start, there is no real issue, other than perhaps a proliferation of anally retentive LLs.

Richard_Webster wrote: »

There will be lots of issues like this where frankly if the tenant is not very satisfactory it is a lot easier to give the statutory notices and evict on that ground rather than messing around trying to use some extra clause in a tenancy agreement. So for that reason I can't see much point in having a fancy agreement with lots of things in it that you could never really prove in practice.

It's not just whether the T can be proved to have failed to meet these daft clauses - it's the fact they are probably unfair contract terms anyway.

Most experienced LLs leave their Ts to sort out their own level of acceptable grime build up on the windows during the tenancy: it really does not register on a scale of "unsatisfactoriness"

I could add a clause to my tenancy agreements saying that I'd like the T to mop the kitchen floor every week or that, because I have been fool enough to lay cream carpet throughout, T must remove his shoes upon entering the property, but it doesn't mean it would stand up in court.

I would obtain a tenancy agreement via a solicitor with specific LL& T experience, or from one of the LL associations, or Landlordlaw or similar. Membership fees etc tax deductible. LAs frequently have a poor grasp of LL and T law - they don't need any training or qualification to set up in business and sadly , it shows.

Richard_Webster

The important thing is how the forms are completed.

The reality with an AST is that you want to make sure:

1. You can get the rent
2. You can get the tenant out if they do not go at the end of the period.

Having extra clauses in about things like cleaning windows is all very well but are you ever going to be bothered to enforce a clause like that.

What a hassle, taking proceedings to evict the tenant because he hasn't cleaned the windows every month - you would have to give evidence of having kept watch near the property so you could say that the windows definitely had not been cleaned when they should have been.

There will be lots of issues like this where frankly if the tenant is not very satisfactory it is a lot easier to give the statutory notices and evict on that ground rather than messing around trying to use some extra clause in a tenancy agreement. So for that reason I can't see much point in having a fancy agreement with lots of things in it that you could never really prove in practice.

In this case OP has to be careful that the partner has been validly added and that may a reason for getting the agents to deal with it. Also if they get it wrong then he has some come back.