Care Home Fees - Who Pays?

EdInvestor

Hi aardvaak

The first step towards getting the NHS to pay is to get an assessment of Mum's condition from council social services.She needs to have a level 3 (most serious) assessment to have any hope of success.

If this doesn't apply, and the question of payment arises, then I'd have thought that the council wouldn't take the house as long as you live in it, because you are her full time carer, a relative and you own half of it anyway, so they can't sell it. They may want to put a charge on it though.

However you may feel it wise to separate your other assets so that it can be clearly seen what is hers and what is yours. It's only hers that should be used to pay for her care, not yours.



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jem16

weatherwax wrote:

As I mentioned in another post, the means test system says that those with savings or assets of more than £20,500 must pay their own home care bills.

The report also uncovered deep resentment in England that personal care in residential homes in Scotland is paid for by the state.

One 70-year-old told researchers: 'I've no disrespect for the Scottish people or the Welsh, but it is the United Kingdom. Why are'nt we all treated the same?'

Free personal care in Scotland is the Executive's flapgship policy and I can understand the resentment it may cause. Unfortunately, in reality, it isn't working as many councils are simply saying that they don't have enough money.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=871842006

Plus a report states;

The study also concludes that differences between Scotland and the rest of the UK in the public costs of personal and nursing care are smaller than policy debates have suggested. This is because care home residents in Scotland no longer receive Attendance Allowance (worth £61 a week at the higher rate) while payments for nursing care are typically more generous in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (£65 per week in Scotland, compared with up to £129 a week in England). Scotland has also managed to reduce its cost profile by making proportionally greater use of care at home for frail, older people.

It's worth remembering though that people still have to be assessed as to whether they are entitled or not to free personal care.

What counts towards free personal care?

What does it actually mean - is it "free"

margaretclare

weatherwax wrote:

The report also uncovered deep resentment in England that personal care in residential homes in Scotland is paid for by the state.

One 70-year-old told researchers: 'I've no disrespect for the Scottish people or the Welsh, but it is the United Kingdom. Why aren't we all treated the same?'

This 70-year old must have been living on one of the outer planets for the last few years not to know how things have changed. Since devolution, many of these issues have been dealt with by the Scottish Executive at the new Scottish Parliament building in Edinburgh and therefore, for practical purposes it is no longer 'the United Kingdom'.

You are darned right that there is deep resentment among many of us in England about the growing inequities as a result of decisions that can be made in Edinburgh. Listen to Gordon Brown, John Prescott and others speaking - they don't even talk about England as a nation. We're to be divided up into 'regions' that can be approved of by Europe. GB speaks of 'Scotland, Wales and the English regions' - that's when he talks about what we think of as England, Scotland and Wales. I have been told in a thread on Martin's site that I have no nation and no nationality because 'England isn't a nation'. See http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/

Back to Aardvark (apologies for the rant and the political statement) it sounds as if your Mum has had a right-sided stroke which affects speech and swallowing. It can be early days - with good physio often there can be some recovery, but with a history of one stroke there is always going to be the risk of another one. This is the second stroke she's had so you know the risks. I would guess that it's too early yet to get a social services assessment done which is not medically-based, is focused on what she can/can't do for herself and therefore the level of help i.e. 'care' that she needs to replace the things she can't do for herself. When it becomes clear what level of recovery can/can't be expected you need a medical assessment first and foremost.

As a matter of urgency however, separate out yours and your Mum's finances! It's a ba-a-a-d idea to have savings in joint names anyway, each of us has an ISA allowance as an individual and this should be used.

Best wishes

Margaret

aardvaak

In reply to margaretclare:-

You are right about right side stroke.
As I said she has been in hospital for 3 weeks and has been making progress though small also some in the last week.
A week ago the Doctor said he was going to send her to a closer to home Cottage Hospital for rehab - after my intervention he said well we will give it another week (this cottage hospital has now refused to take her as they have not got the right physio facilities)
I am worriied the Doctor might at the end of this week just throw her out to care or home. Can I insist she stays to do her rehab at the current hospital as she is still making progress?
Some of the other patients on her ward have been there 4-7weeks at least.

margaretclare

Hi aardvark

I think you should insist that your Mum needs proper rehab under the care of physios who are qualified in stroke care. You might also consider contacting the Stroke Association: http://www.stroke.org.uk/ who will have a lot more helpful advice and information than I can possibly give.

It is known that many stroke victims do NOT get the right treatment, rehab, and importantly, many do not get the early diagnosis and intervention which is absolutely crucial for the long-term. I have seen people who obviously had a left-sided stroke struggling to walk around with the left arm completely unsupported - this causes intense pain because the capsule of the shoulder joint is loosened and the arm drags. The affected arm MUST be supported at all times, either on a pillow or in a sling. Also, trying to walk while the leg is weak is not a good idea - this causes pain and the 'shuffling' gait that one so often sees.

They can't 'throw her out' if you don't agree. And they can't send her to a home either - a very bad idea IMHO anyway, as neither at home nor in a care home are there the rehab facilities that she needs.

HTH

Margaret

aardvaak

I have seen on the notes the Doctor has put "Medically Stable" and also put note "discuss with family (me) forward placement". I have told senior Nurse my plans are to have her home once fit or fitter but require her to remain in present stroke ward at present then move to rehab ward within the current Hospital whilst contining to have physio.

Have I said the right thing?

Does this change anything?

margaretclare

aardvaak wrote:

I have seen on the notes the Doctor has put "Medically Stable" and also put note "discuss with family (me) forward placement". I have told senior Nurse my plans are to have her home once fit or fitter but require her to remain in present stroke ward at present then move to rehab ward within the current Hospital whilst contining to have physio.

Have I said the right thing?

Does this change anything?

Hi aardvaak

IMHO you have said exactly the right thing.

A further thought - as it's a right-sided stroke, with speech and swallowing involvement, is your Mum getting care from a speech therapist??? This is crucial for this type of stroke, although speech therapists are as scarce as hens' teeth in some areas.

Given that this is a second major stroke, from what the Doctor has written it's possible that he/she is recognising that your Mum's prognosis is not good. The underlying problem is still there, you see - it's a problem of the cardiovascular system, the blood-vessels in the brain have become affected. Think of the cardiovascular system as a closed fuel system like in a car - the engineers of our family have understood this very well - with the heart being the pump which can fail under stress, or a 'fuel leak' can occur into the brain, which is the stroke.

Is it known whether these 2 strokes of your Mum's were caused by a clot, or by a bleed? Because the treatment is quite different, although the long-term rehab etc is similar. This is where early diagnosis is so crucial, a brain scan immediately, but this is what most people don't get.

HTH

Margaret

aardvaak

She had a a brain scan on her 2nd day and I think they said it was a clot.

aardvaak

I think is has been seen by a speech therapist who I think also deals with diet and swallowing. She is at present on grade one TX meals

bel2310

My Mum suffers from Dementia, she is incontinent and has to be fed, but is apparently not entitled to any help from the NHS. I did visit a solicitor who deals with this and she said that her condition is not yet "bad" enough. She is in a residential not nursing home, cost £1600 per month. I was effecitively given 2 or 3 days notice to find her a place in a home, otherwise I was told soc services would arrange a place in a home some 30 miles from where I live, or alternatively she would be placed short term in a mental hospital. I was very lucky that the home I found, whilst a little shabby, has wonderful caring staff and Mum seems as happy as she can be there. To agree with an earlier post, on top of care fees there are costs such as hairdresser, chiropodist, and in Mums case I have had to be a fairly comprehensive new wardrobe of machine washable and tumble dryer proof clothes. I have P o A, arranged with Mums agreement when she was mentally ok but I was shopping for her etc. It has proved a godsend organising things financially. Her care is paid for by pension, AA and a renting our her home. My thoughts wit anyone who is facing this decision for their parents.