Care Home Fees - Who Pays?

aardvaak

Edinvester said "1.Anyone who is dealing with a relative who has to go into a nursing home and will require full-on medical/nursing care ( eg after a severe stroke) may well be entitled to get it all paid by the NHS.This needs investigating as there is evidence the NHS is trying to weasel out of its responsibilities. This may also apply to severe dementia cases who go to residential, rather than nursing homes, and to people who have a medium level assessment but who are likely to get worse and require the full care later on."

This is happening to a relative of mine - What do I quote to the the Doctor/ Social Services or Local Authority to get all paid by NHS?

ie is there a scheme/benefit etc., to quote?

morganlefay

Oh Aaadvark I feel for you, you are about to engage in a 'debate' with one of the most intransigent groups of people I have ever met. Get onto the Help the Aged website and also the Alzheimer's Soc (even if that's not the problem) for advice - they are v helpful in terms of advice but can't fight the battle for you - in my experience. Basically if elderly person is in a NURSING home (not residential home) and needs nursing care they SHOULD be assessed for what is called 'Continuing Care' ie fully funded by NHS. Having said which they have to be: a) very ill,and b) not stable . Most people odn't qualify for this (tho many certainly ought to , but they write the rules and apply them as they see fit.) If not eligible for this funding than the elderly person should then be assessed for RNCC ('Registered Nurse something something) funding, which means that an assessment is made of the amount of nursing care the person needs (that is real nurse stuff - not help with washing or feeding, but having dressings changed, specialist nursing stuff) There are three bands of this, High - for people who are severely ill and need a lot of nursing, Medium and low. The high band of RNCC and eligibility for Continuing Care funding overlap in some mysterious way and we have been told that in Oxon, where my mum lives, you have to be reckoned to be within 12 weeks of dying to get Continuing Care funding. Isn't that nice.
You are absolutely entitled to ask for all these assessments for someone in a nursing home, and you can ask to have them done again, and appeal if you disagree, but certainly in Oxon you have to be at death's door to get above the medium level of RNCC. If you can't find out who to go to contact Help the Aged because they will have all that information and are very kindly with it. AND when you have struggled to get any sort of funding (which don't forget the elderly person has probably been paying for in taxes etc for YEARS and YEARS) should his/her health take a thru for the better then they may well re-assess and take the funding away again. This site would not allow me to describe the system in the words I'd like to use, but all I can say is don't give up, don't be disheartened. There is a website set up by a man whose Mum is in this position (she was discussed on the Panorama programme about all this a few months ago. He is planning a demo and petition and I, for one, will be right there with him, he is at http://fightthebeauracracy.org
. GOOD LUCK and very best wishes from me,
Morgan

Paul_Herring

aardvaak wrote:

EdInvestor wrote:

"1.Anyone who is dealing with a relative who has to go into a nursing home and will require full-on medical/nursing care ( eg after a severe stroke) may well be entitled to get it all paid by the NHS.

This is happening to a relative of mine - What do I quote to the the Doctor/ Social Services or Local Authority to get all paid by NHS?

ie is there a scheme/benefit etc., to quote?

Ah - slip of the brane there by EdInvester I beleive. The NHS will not pay all the bill.

If a patient is not fully self funding, then the patient going into care has all their income (pensions etc.) taken off them with the exception of £19.60 per week. (Unless there's some left over after paying for care of course)

If the patient has capital below £12,750, then this is all they pay.

Between £12,750 and £21,000, they must contribute extra on a sliding scale, and still have their income except the £19.60 per week taken of them.

Above £21,000 they must fully self-fund until/if they reach £21,000.

The NHS will pay the difference between the contributions made by the patient and the fee the care home charges. Care costs exclude registered nursing care costs, which the NHS should pay regardless.

May I reccommend http://www.tameside.gov.uk/corpgen/new/nursehome.htm if you've not seen it (or anything similar) - that includes you Ed.

Paula_anne

Just a thought to the caring side of things, i am a qualified community carer who vists the elderly at home, this may be an option to you, a visit/call lasts 1/2hr some clients have 3 or 4 calls a day, just advising that there are other options then just care homes, and also not many eldery people adapt to change well, and often their health deteriates, apologies if this isn't relevent to your situation as don't know your fathers needs.

EdInvestor

morganlefay wrote:

Basically if elderly person is in a NURSING home (not residential home) and needs nursing care they SHOULD be assessed for what is called 'Continuing Care' ie fully funded by NHS. Having said which they have to be: a) very ill,and b) not stable . Most people odn't qualify for this (tho many certainly ought to , but they write the rules and apply them as they see fit.) If not eligible for this funding than the elderly person should then be assessed for RNCC ('Registered Nurse something something) funding, which means that an assessment is made of the amount of nursing care the person needs (that is real nurse stuff - not help with washing or feeding, but having dressings changed, specialist nursing stuff) There are three bands of this, High - for people who are severely ill and need a lot of nursing, Medium and low. The high band of RNCC and eligibility for Continuing Care funding overlap...

A useful forum at the website mentioned by Morgan to discuss the issues related to getting full NHS care funding for those with serious medical needs in nursing homes.

This matter of NHS funding has also been investigated by Ann Abraham, the Parliamenatry and Health Ombudsman, who is also inquiring into problems relating to pensions at Equitable Life and occupational schemes where people have lost their pensions.

Her findings are here

EdInvestor

Paula_anne wrote:

Just a thought to the caring side of things, i am a qualified community carer who vists the elderly at home, this may be an option to you, a visit/call lasts 1/2hr some clients have 3 or 4 calls a day, just advising that there are other options then just care homes, and also not many eldery people adapt to change well, and often their health deteriates, apologies if this isn't relevent to your situation as don't know your fathers needs.

Hi Paula anne

Thanks for your useful comments.One of the big problems clearly is the dearth of information available to older people and their families about the resources available to them - and especially their cost.

How much would people pay for the service you mention - a half hour visit a day - for instance? Are there discounted deals based on a monthly rate for a daily visit?

What other info can you give us about costs for services to the elderly?

margaretclare

EdInvestor wrote:

One of the big problems clearly is the dearth of information available to older people and their families about the resources available to them - and especially their cost.

What other info can you give us about costs for services to the elderly?

I think this is very true. There is little information available, or little that is easily available, as opposed to the huge amount of scaremongering about 'they will take your home' etc.

I personally will never object to paying for the help that I might need to enable me to live in my own home, with my own things around me, with the right to come in and go out as and when I please. It's 'quality of life' after all, isn't it?

Margaret

hazeyj

elliebean wrote:

If a person has over £21k in assets or capital they are expected to pay for their care. If they have between £21k and the lower level of £12,750 they would pay a proportion towards their fees. Once their assets drop below £12,750 they would be assessed on their income only. If they gives money or assets away within 2 years of going into care the LA can treat it as deliberate self-deprivation and ignore it.

Hiya, is this really true? Its the answer to a question Ive been wanting to ask for a long time now on behalf of my mum. Thanks

weatherwax_2

As I mentioned in another post, the means test system says that those with savings or assets of more than £20,500 must pay their own home care bills.

The report also uncovered deep resentment in England that personal care in residential homes in Scotland is paid for by the state.

One 70-year-old told researchers: 'I've no disrespect for the Scottish people or the Welsh, but it is the United Kingdom. Why are'nt we all treated the same?'

aardvaak

My 78 year old Mother had a serious stroke 3 weeks ago, she is still in hospital, is incontinent,can't speak apart from a few words physios are trying to get her to stand.she can eat mashed up food.
I have always intended for her to return home under my and possibly others care.
I am 52 her full time carer since 1998 after 1st stroke we own our sole property as joint partners (Freehold) no mortgage, bought 1997, our monies are held in joint names.

Does anyone have any advice?