So now I have a solar PV system how do I make the most of it???

Martyn1981

bampah wrote: »

My 2.5Kw system was installed late in 2012 and I am on the highest tariff. I've recently been quoted by 2 companies to retrofit Solar Edge equipment to bring it up to latest standards but is it worth it?
My panels face SSW on the south coast and have no shading.
My installer gave a 10 year guarantee on equipment and 25 year guarantee on efficiency and crucially, a 10 year guarantee on returns which they have already honoured in the 2nd year when the inverter malfunctioned.
I may be missing something but I cannot see any reason to upgrade at the moment.
Any advice would be welcome.
tia

Hiya, I had a cold call from one of these companies. I explained that I doubted it would be worth it (on the ESE) and that I had a SolarEdge system on my smaller WNW so knew how it worked,

they suggested on the phone that an upgrade might cost about £2.5k. I said probably wouldn't be economic, but willing to have a listen so long as the salesperson understood they were probably wasting their time.

I felt that £2.5k was iffy, but my inverters are about to come off warranty, and are only 91% and 94% efficient, so a single inverter at 98% would be better and 'save' me ~£1k.

The salesperson spent 2 hours trying to explain to me how inefficient regular systems are, despite my pointing out that performance against PVGIS was fine, so whether or not the SE system gave me an uplift or not, it couldn't be that bad.

She then explained how panels can have varying efficiencies and drew a diagram of 8 panels all with different outputs. I explained that my panels should be -5% to +5%, and that most panels these days were 0 to +5%, but she went on.

I then pointed out that one of the panels she'd drawn was -24% (she reached for a calculator to check my maths) then said they do vary quite a bit.

After 2 hours and finally giving a price of £4.6k she declared "I don't know why you'd consider doing this?" I said I wasn't, I was cold called and told £2.5k so was willing to have a meeting.

She then told me that so long as I was willing to £3.5k every 5 years for 2 replacement inverters, then I shouldn't bother. I laughed, and she packed up and left.

There were about 4 things I felt were actually misselling or misleading, including one claim that if a panel failed you could replace it with a more powerful panel but not have to report this to your FiT provider. I said that was wrong. She said you only have to report upgrades, I said that is an upgrade, she rang her boss, who gave a confusing mixed up excuse filled reply that didn't really answer.


Check your performance against PVGIS, if it's close, then gains will be small. Ask them for a specific price before coming. I got the impression it was X£'s per panel, so the price is known, and the visit is simply a hard sell.

Be careful.

Mart.

Exiled_Tyke

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I laughed, and she packed up and left.

Mart.

I would hate to be a sales person trying to gain the upper-hand in a discussion with you on PV. I think you should sell your consultancy services to PVers wary of the next sales pitch they will be subjected to.

Martyn1981

Exiled_Tyke wrote: »

I would hate to be a sales person trying to gain the upper-hand in a discussion with you on PV. I think you should sell your consultancy services to PVers wary of the next sales pitch they will be subjected to.

TBH it was a bit weird. She seemed really nice and came armed with a treat for the dog. She also said she'd been warned that I knew my stuff, but then slid into spin at every opportunity.

Whilst I wasn't thinking too seriously about a SE upgrade, I could see the value, I'd already considered the fact that the inverters would be out of warranty in August, so that was worth £500 to £1000. Also that the efficiency jump would add around 4% to my generation so that's about 110kWh, or £55pa.

So a price of £2.5k wasn't unthinkable as I have shading on that roof, so a lift of 200kWh would have been enough for me to take it very seriously.

Unfortunately the whole sales pitch was aimed at trying to convince me that my current system couldn't work properly, rather than talk about a small (but economic) uplift.

Each time she was butting heads with my actual generation which is almost spot on with PVGIS, so I'm not saying the SE kit wouldn't improve my figures, it's just her (their?) approach was to suggest my system didn't work well at all. She simply failed to change approach and got more 'spinny' as time went on.

Thinking about the price, it was £4.6k, which might be broken down as £1k + £200/panel as I have 18 on the ESE.


Most of my family are, or have been salespersons (I'm rubbish at it) so I don't have problems with sales, but hard sells and spin ...... now that I would like to sit in on!

Mart.

bampah

I was quoted £4k by the first guy who was so full of spin that I now refer to him as Gyro. He told me that
a. my output would be upped by 25-30%,
b. the Fire Brigade wouldn't come within half a mile if the roof caught on fire with my present system and that
c. the gov. are going to ban string inverters within the next couple of years and thus the price would rise dramatically. He also said that the current price of a replacement string inverter would be £12-1500.
The 2nd guy was more honest and assured me that he wouldn't guarantee any more than 8% extra output but still wanted £3.5k but couldn't put up a logical argument that it was financially beneficial to upgrade. His main point was that he was 'local'.
As I have only used 4 years of the 10 year warranty on my system and armed with your advice, I will let my current supplier carry the responsibility of footing the bill for any inverter/panel problems for the next 6 years.
One further query. How do I check my performance against the PVGIS please?
Thanks for your help. It has been invaluable.:T

Martyn1981

bampah wrote: »

One further query. How do I check my performance against the PVGIS please?

Hiya, it's very simple, go to PVGIS enter your rough details, stick a pin on your house and press calculate.

The estimates are extremely accurate. Remember they are gross figures, so if you have loads of shading expect less. However, I thought I had quite a bit of shading on my ESE, but seem to be doing fine.

If you're not sure, have a look at the walkthrough in section 5 of the FAQs.

Please don't disappear, it would be interesting to hear what the PVGIS estimate is, and how it compares to your first 4 years of PV fun.

Mart.

Martyn1981

By the way, comments in red:-

bampah wrote: »

a. my output would be upped by 25-30%,

Possibly, but there would have to be lots of shading issues, and if it was this bad, surely you'd be calling them, not the other way round.

b. the Fire Brigade wouldn't come within half a mile if the roof caught on fire with my present system and that

There may be an issue in the US, but chatting with a fireman on another renewable forum, there are no plans in the UK to change anything regarding the quick neutralisation of DC generation.

c. the gov. are going to ban string inverters within the next couple of years and thus the price would rise dramatically. He also said that the current price of a replacement string inverter would be £12-1500.

For 4kW or less, prices should be £350 to £800 depending on make and model.

Mart.

ASavvyBuyer

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hiya, it's very simple, go to PVGIS enter your rough details, stick a pin on your house and press calculate.
Mart.

Thanks for the link to PVGIS Mart. Checked for our system and we seem to be doing well above estimate. For May it estimates 428kw, but we are already at 481kw with the rest of a sunny day to go! :j

bampah

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Hiya, it's very simple, go to

Please don't disappear, it would be interesting to hear what the PVGIS estimate is, and how it compares to your first 4 years of PV fun.

Mart.

The chart gives me an average of 2220.
My installer guarantees 2228
My output has averaged at 2309.

Martyn1981

bampah wrote: »

The chart gives me an average of 2220.
My installer guarantees 2228
My output has averaged at 2309.

Cheers. In that case I think the second installer was probably very honest suggesting an 8% uplift at best. A mix of increased efficiency in the inverter and the SE kit doing its best to sort out any minor issues.

Have to say I really like my SE system on the WNW, but can't see an upgrade making sense unless a system is experiencing problems already.

At 8%, an upgrade for you would gain about £1,800 over the next 20 years, and save you a replacement inverter if it failed out of warranty, so the numbers aren't really close.

Fun exercise though.

Mart.

John_Pierpoint

I and two of my local friends have financially high yielding PV systems dating back 4 or 5 years.

All three of us are being pestered by unwanted phone calls with people knowing next to nothing about PV. offering some sort of "service" for our existing installations.

Some are I think "selling under guise" [SUGGING] and of course they always call their salesman an engineer a surveyor or a consultant. I always say "get the person who will be visiting me to make the appointment in person, as I don't want to waste anyone's time". I am still waiting.

Well at least they are using the the database of installations and someone has gone to the trouble of running it against a register of phone numbers. Makes a nice change from the endless phone calls I have had in the past suggesting I should invest in PV panels:

I have a nasty feeling that now the Tories have cancelled most of "the green carp" there are a lot of desperate installers trying to find a secondary market.

In my case they should not even be phoning me, because I am Telephone Preference Service member, but instead of unavailable or witheld I now get mobile phone numbers probably from a "burner" phone.or a real looking number with a digit missing.

Out there there must be some honest engineers who know their business but I fear they will be bankrupted by the spivs.

Is anyone aware of someone compiling a list on this or any forum of cold callers: supposed company or trade name, their phone numbers, their service and their guise ?