Angry about today's rail fare increases?

Mids_Costcutter

Inactive wrote: »

Rail fares are subsidised by all of us taxpayers, so it is good news that are increasing, as far as I am concerned.

Is it good news if the result is a transfer of journeys from rail to road or air and increased pollution, congestion etc. as a result? Increasing the share of rail travel benefits the whole population not just rail passengers / freight.

Road transport is also subsidised by all taxpayers, whether they own and run a vehicle or not.

epz_2

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

Is it good news if the result is a transfer of journeys from rail to road or air and increased pollution, congestion etc. as a result? Increasing the share of rail travel benefits the whole population not just rail passengers / freight.

Road transport is also subsidised by all taxpayers, whether they own and run a vehicle or not.

Are you mental, the amount of road tax/insurance tax/petrol tax/vat on cars and petrol/speeding& parking charges absolutely dwarfs the amount of money spent on the roads.

If some invented a teleporting device and nobody needed a car we would probably need to 1/2 the NHS budget.


I have always thought the figures saying trains are more eco are a bit fishy as well. I find it hard to believe that a half train weighing 100 tones powered by an failed 1970 sub engine is more efficient on the average journey than someone in a golf or similar 70mpg modern cars. On long trips with a fully loaded train it might be ok but i still recon it might be tight especially against 2/3 people travelling in a mondeo. That said it not like the greens/unitions would let facts stand in the way of the cash gravy train.

Rolandtheroadie

Stigy wrote: »

Can't answer for LU workers or TfL in general, but my Tax code has remained unchained sinse befrore joining the rail industry and I enjoy my free staff travel and 75% off other operators' routes...Tax free

If you dont get a p11d and your tax code is correct it probably isnt taxed.
Mines is taxed (just short of £600 off my tax code) but gives 16 x 48 hour "free" travel on the rail network (included Caledonian Sleeper to Euston and the London Underground then mainline to Plymouth recently) and a (i'm sure) 75% discount worldwide.
It also gets free travel on certain ferrys.
Outwith the 16 boxes, theres a 75% discount.
With 6 of us, it's well worth the tax on £600.

johnfarquhar74

scotsman4th wrote: »

If you dont get a p11d and your tax code is correct it probably isnt taxed.
Mines is taxed (just short of £600 off my tax code) but gives 16 x 48 hour "free" travel on the rail network (included Caledonian Sleeper to Euston and the London Underground then mainline to Plymouth recently) and a (i'm sure) 75% discount worldwide.

I assume you've been in the industry for more than 20 years then?
I only ask as I have the ATOC staff travel card but get no entitlement to the sleepers(but do get a reduced rate) and recently they've taken away London Underground priv tickets, they are actively encouraging us to use Oyster which, with it's capped rate, works out no cheaper/better than regular oyster/travlecards!?!

Mids_Costcutter

epz wrote: »

Are you mental, the amount of road tax/insurance tax/petrol tax/vat on cars and petrol/speeding& parking charges absolutely dwarfs the amount of money spent on the roads.

If some invented a teleporting device and nobody needed a car we would probably need to 1/2 the NHS budget.

No, not mental. I was referring to the external costs which road transport imposes on society (congestion, accidents, pollution, noise etc.) not only constructing and maintaining roads. Here is the evidence from the 2009 House of Commons Transport Committee Taxes and Charges on Road Users report:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200809/cmselect/cmtran/103/103.pdf

p.11 it is actually 18% cheaper to buy and run a car in 2008 than it was in 1988

p.13 motoring taxation amounts to around £46 billion / year (including fuel duty, VED, VAT and business motoring taxes)

p.16 total external costs of road transport: £70 - 95 billion per year

All tax payers subsidise road transport.

Inactive

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

Road transport is also subsidised by all taxpayers, whether they own and run a vehicle or not.

Get real.:rotfl::rotfl:

Rolandtheroadie

johnfarquhar74 wrote: »

I assume you've been in the industry for more than 20 years then?
I only ask as I have the ATOC staff travel card but get no entitlement to the sleepers(but do get a reduced rate) and recently they've taken away London Underground priv tickets, they are actively encouraging us to use Oyster which, with it's capped rate, works out no cheaper/better than regular oyster/travlecards!?!

Joined in 1992, my reading on ATOC suggested you pay for the sleeper, but I double checked whilst booking and didnt have to.
Reading info on ATOC's website again, it seemed to suggest you would have to pay £22.50 if you were boarding at Euston to come North.
On the tube I just showed my pass and was let through.

geordieracer

Mankysteve wrote: »

Most of the rail system in Europe is private owned and yet fares are cheaper. Just because this conservative government don't have the balls to admit they made a mess of privatisation. I'm not necessary anti Privatisation its just typical British mismanagement.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::T:T:T


See this is what i love about this forum.. Time and time again you get people who think they know it all and yet know nothing..

Most of the European railway system is state owned and the reason they are so cheap is because they throw more in subsidies at the price of tickets then we do here..

Though there are a lot more freight companies that are private

Ive outlined most of the ones that come up in arguments about ticket prices for you here.


France - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF

Germany - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bundesbahn

Italy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrovie_dello_Stato

Belgium - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCB

Holland - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Railways

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Why is it that we have a privatised rail service and yet the taxpayer is shovelling millions of tax dollars into this black hole?

The whole thing is a shambles.

If it MUST remain privatised then let someone who knows how to run a train set take over it.

My vote is for the Germans,French or Japanese..not these clowns.

The perfect solution is to return to the proud days of British Rail..a national,integrated rail transport service.

British Rail ended up a shambles through lack of proper investment in rolling stock and such like and its performance figures and passenger numbers were well down on what they are today.
Whilst i agree it appears a shambles at times its actually not and theres some damn good people who damn well hard in all weathers to try and keep the thing moving, let alone the staff who have to face some downright nasty and abusive people who really should know better.


You know why the French and Germans and what not can build big rail lines to anywhere in their country? It got flattened in the war and places never got rebuilt and they are also 3 times the size roughly of Britian so they have the room to build extra lines. We have some of the most intensively used railways in the world and we have built around most of them in the approach to cities which is why the cost goes up more cos we then have to build under.. thats not cheap.

epz wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that a half train weighing 100 tones powered by an failed 1970 sub engine is more efficient on the average journey than someone in a golf or similar 70mpg modern cars. .

See another spouting crap. Most of the stock people travel on nowadays is actually new - well not out of the 70s anyway. In the case of the HSTs they have had newer engines fitted to make them more reliable and efficient thus extending the lifespan of them and thus making them cost effective - this includes the numerous refurbs the coaching stock has undergone.

Yes there are a few loco hauled services still running where needed but to imagine all the stock is from the 70s is just laughable. A bit like your argument.


shame im off on holiday today as would love to have discussed this further..

Scotsman4th - your protected staff so you get your boxes, anyone who joined after privatisation doesn't get that benefit.

TwistedPsycho

newfoundglory wrote: »

The government can start by taxing rail staff who get free travel on the railway and underground. After all, airline staff have to pay tax to use their free travel I don't see why rail staff should be any different. The government could make millions!

Its already being done, as the railway staff that get the perk (post-privatisation joiners do not get UK wide travel that former-BR staff do) have to pay tax as it is a benefit in kind.

Incidentally, what post-privatisation staff actually get depends on where in the industry you are:
* Network Rail staff get no free travel at all, however do get a discount on season tickets from their nearest home station to their work place.
* Most Train Operating Companies (TOC's) only allow travel on their own services for free, with a discount for leisure travel only (IE not commuting to work) on other TOCs services. Some TOC's have reciprical agreements in a locality or with other TOC's owned by the same company (IE Virgin used to have such an arrangement when they ownd both West Coast and Cross Country)
* Open Access operators such as Grand Central and Wrexham & Shropshire (As far as I know) get nothing at all.

Something else to consider is that the "free" (its not really free, as we discussed the perk is taxable) travel issued to former BR staff is actually enshrined in law, so you would have to petition your MP's to repeal it before anything is done at all.

Mids_Costcutter

Inactive wrote: »

Get real.:rotfl::rotfl:

Your evidence?