Mains gas? - you're lucky! Please help!

LittleVermin

People without mains gas who want gas central heating have to use LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) either from bulk tanks or cylinders. Bulk tanks are owned by the suppliers - and we sign a 2 year contract and can't shop around.

Prices are NOT regulated by Ofgem. We'd like Ofgem to regulate LPG as well as mains gas and electricity. This winter people have paid from 30 pence per litre to 68 ppl - and those are just the ones who've posted on the Bulk LPG thread!

Please add your 'thanks' to the '50 word moneyfesto' at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477. MSE will take up the best supported moneyfestos with the top politicians and regulators. There are over 600 suggestions already - so we need all the help we can get!

Thanks - and happy Christmas!

[Deleted User]

we don`t have mains gas. We use wood in a stove for heating but we have massive insulation. Did you choose to live in your house?

LittleVermin

kittie wrote: »

we don`t have mains gas. We use wood in a stove for heating but we have massive insulation. Did you choose to live in your house?

Thanks for your reply, kittie. But I don’t think it addresses the point I was making that many users of bottle/bulk gas would like the same protection – through Ofgem – that mains gas and electricity users have. And that’s why I asked people to go to http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477 and add their thanks.

I assume you are not against regulation in principle? From another post, I see that you live in a new-build “true eco house”. I assume you’ll see if you can use building regs to help sort out the problems you have?

We cannot all live in eco houses with wood stoves! For a start there are not enough trees in the country for a sustainable wood harvest.

To answer your question: yes, I bought my old house, as a bit of a wreck, renovated adding lots of insulation, and changed from solid fuel to gas central heating in 1991 (choosing a regional LPG company which was later bought out by BP).

There are at least 150,000 households using LPG in the UK, according to the industry. So rather more than live in eco houses!

What many LPG users want is some transparency in the market. And an end to outright fleecing of some customers. When prices for the same product – at the same time and on mainland UK – range from 30 p to 68 p there is something wrong. I doubt whether you’d pay £68 for a load of logs when you could buy them for £30 – but LPG users get locked into 2 year contracts. MSE’s Bulk LPG – Cheapest supplier /supply route? forum is a very good place for us to help each other, and get the better deals. But there are only a hundred or so people in the forum – we’d like a better deal for everyone – all 150,000 households – will you help? I thought that was what MSE forums were for!

Here’s the link, again: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477 - please add your thanks!

Apologies for the long post – but thanks, kittie, for giving me the opportunity to write more.

samtheman1k

There are at least 5 other options than LPG, including ASHP, GSHP, oil, electric (e7), solid fuel etc...it's a free market, you could always use one of the alternatives that are cheaper?

LittleVermin

samtheman1k wrote: »

There are at least 5 other options than LPG, including ASHP, GSHP, oil, electric (e7), solid fuel etc...it's a free market, you could always use one of the alternatives that are cheaper?

Thanks for the suggestions!

But are you seriously suggesting
1) all 150,000 households on LPG should switch, and
2) LPG users do not 'deserve' any protection through regulations already enjoyed by users of mains gas and electricity?

And to answer your implied question - when people come on the Bulk LPG forum asking about installing an LPG system I recommend looking at 1) relative costs using the Notts Energy website and 2) consider ASHP, etc before getting locked into LPG (see my post #418 on the Bulk LPG sticky). For existing LPG users the costs of switching might have a very long payback time - if ever. And some users, e.g. on estates and in mobile homes, have far fewer than your 5 options!

So, again, please support the LPG users' moneyfesto!

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477

[Deleted User]

why didn`t you get a solid old fashioned second hand wood-burning rayburn?

I do sympathise by the way.

WhiteHorse

LittleVermin wrote: »

This winter people have paid from 30 pence per litre to 68 ppl - and those are just the ones who've posted on the Bulk LPG thread!

Those who use ordinary heating oil have also experienced this sort of price rise.

LittleVermin

WhiteHorse wrote: »

Those who use ordinary heating oil have also experienced this sort of price rise.

Yes, just like heating oil, the price of LPG has gone up .... but I wrote:

When prices for the same product – at the same time and on mainland UK – range from 30 p to 68 p there is something wrong.

I very much doubt that prices of heating oil varied by over two times at any one time! And both these prices, 30 and 68, were from the same company, Flogas!

If you use heating oil at least you can shop around.

Can you see why many LPG users want some regulation of the market? The Competition Commission investigated the domestic LPG market - and produced an order which made it easier to switch suppliers from April 2009. But there's a long way to go before the market is transparent. The MSE Bulk LPG forum seems to be the only forum for LPG users in the UK - and people keep posting what I can only describe as horror stories. And this would seem to be the tip of the iceberg as companies totally ignore the terms of their contracts (particularly about maximum price rises). One poster got nearly £1000 refunded by Calor after he went through his invoices and the prices paid. Several others have had to get companies to reduce price rises in excess of their contracts. So, if there are about 100 people active in the forum - and 150,000 plus households using LPG - how much are the suppliers making from unfair dealing?

Several of us have written to MPs, been to Trading Standards, etc, etc - now we are asking other MSE'ers to help us by clicking 'Thanks' on:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477

WhiteHorse

LittleVermin wrote: »

Yes, just like heating oil, the price of LPG has gone up .... but I wrote:

When prices for the same product – at the same time and on mainland UK – range from 30 p to 68 p there is something wrong.

My comment is still good. Heating oil prices vary widely between suppliers. It's gone from an average of 37p/litre to an average of 55p/litre, with highs of over £1/litre.

All for the same product (and from the same refinery to boot!).

LittleVermin

WhiteHorse wrote: »

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My comment is still good. Heating oil prices vary widely between suppliers. It's gone from an average of 37p/litre to an average of 55p/litre, with highs of over £1/litre.

All for the same product (and from the same refinery to boot!).

Heating oil prices don't seem to vary so widely between suppliers as LPG does. Not if BoilerJuice's graphs are accurate. http://www.boilerjuice.com/heatingOilPrices.php

You don't give any dates for your prices of 37ppl and 55ppl.

BoilerJuice's one year graph shows

• last winter/spring average ~45 (max ~60, min ~35)
• summer av 42 (max ~52, min ~40)
• but last 2 weeks the av price has risen steeply to ~70, min is now ~49 and the max is 200 (?desperate snow-bound people willing to pay any price?).

So I'll accept oil prices vary, even from the same refinery. But normally the market keeps the max and min in a narrow band.

AND you can shop around! For LPG you are tied into a 2 yr contract - and the same company can simultaneously charge one customer 30ppl and another 68 ppl.

This is why we are asking MSE forum users to support us and click Thanks on:


http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=39205254&postcount=477


..

Moody_Mare

samtheman1k wrote: »

There are at least 5 other options than LPG, including ASHP, GSHP, oil, electric (e7), solid fuel etc...it's a free market, you could always use one of the alternatives that are cheaper?

This is not always the case, were I live the only option we are allowed is LPG (due to planning regs) and as such we are a captive audience to the horrendous price hikes and locked in contracts.

We could have not bought this property but it was the only one we could afford so their was no choice, like many others we are stuck in a situation were there should be regulation.