Burst pipes

ran123ran_2

Have had a lot of cold weather and as a result have sufferred 4 burst pipes in our utility room which is off the kitchen.
1 to hot water supply under sink (sink on outside wall...but inside house if that makes sense).
3 others were underneath the floor supplying water to a radiator...pipes had burts within 2 feet of this radiator....the radiator itself was also leaking...in the middle of the panel...apparently a seal had come off/worn away??? radiator was new ...only fitted end of october....

All other pipes were ok...house been warm..can't understand why they burst only in utility room....could it be beacuse they had not been lagged ? I think they had been lagged everywhere else but have a feeling the fitters did not lagg then from kitchen to utility room....I could not see any lagging on pipes coming from kithcen when plumber was fixing the leaks....but there was a bit of lagging within a couple of feet of the utility room radiator.....plumber seems to think this would not be the cause....can't understand why its isolated just in the utility room???

Can anyone help / advise ?

Thanks

dlm4473

without knowing or seeing the property the best you are likely to receive is best guesses.

Many factors could have caused or participated in the leaks such as;
are the pipes plastic? (maybe gnawed by pests)
are there vents under the floor to the outside ? (Wind direction blowing directly onto pipe)
Is foundation of utility room significantly different to other parts of house (large concrete slab ?)
Was utility room work done by different plumber at a different time to rest of house ? (Could be poor workmanship that has failed due to first cold spell since installation)

As far as leak in middle of panel is concerned i am unaware of any radiators that have seals in the middle of there panels !

As stated these are just guesses - best person to advise would have been the plumber who fixed them (plumbers are not known for being slow to critique other peoples work) Was it perhaps the same plumber that installed the pipes that you got to fix the leaks ?

Hope that helps you a little in finding the issue - just out of interest did the plumber do anything to stop it happening again ?

silvercar

If I was guessing I would say that there is probably a vent near the pipes below floor level so the below 0C temperature is blowing directly onto a nearby pipe through the vent.

You may get better luck on the DIY board. Have a look at post #35 on this thread where there is a picture of what could be happening:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2909980

ran123ran_2

The plumber was from British Gas under the central heating & plumbing home cover.

He just fixed the leaks but did not do anything to prevent them happening again....I kept asking him about the lagging and he just replied that it doesn't really make a difference.

When I told him the radiator was leaking from the middle...he wasn't convinced until he saw it for himself.

All the central heating pipes & radiators were new and installed end of October this year by the same company....there were 3 people putting them in.

All pipes were copper. Foundations are exactly the same as rest of the house...not suer about the airvents.

dlm4473

If pipes were not lagged then they were not installed properly - very strange thing for BG engineer to say re it wouldnt make a difference ! It makes a bloody huge difference - not only in terms of damage caused by leaks but also to your fuel bill !

If you are sure that they are indeed not properly lagged then complain to BG and get them to rectify it (assuming by 'same company' you mean BG) - it is part of the installation to insulate underfloor pipes. I would also complain as to engineers response - his job is to keep your system maintained problem-free and working throuout the year, not to repair problems as they happen !

Are you aware if the pipes actually burst or if the leaks were from the pipe fittings ? If it was fittings this might indicate poor workmanship and could possible explain why "lagging wouldnt have made a difference"

owned_by_2_Siamese

Sympathise with your problem. Our utility room also suffered frozen pipes - both hot and cold on the inside of an outside wall, in addition two radiators elsewhere in the house stopped working as the pipes froze (inside the wall !! on the right side of the insulation as its timber framed) The heating was on constant at 20 degrees throughout. The problem in the utility is that pipes are often in cupboard - so I now leave the doors open when really cold. As regards underfloor - if you can access them (assuming the repairer lifted floor) then its worth insulating. Be aware though at -20 for two days which we had, it doesnt guarantee they wont freeze. A solution (too late now for you I think) is to have plastic pipes installed in these areas, they are more forgiving and tend not to burst when frozen.

For radiator circuits it can help to turn the thermostatic valves to max - this keeps the flow going and preventing water sitting in the pipes when the rad is up to temp - and more likley to freeze - keeping the utility warmer will help the rest of your pipes to be less likelyto freeze ! (cheaper to heat than repair!)

ran123ran_2

the pipes had actually burst...I have the sections of pipe that BG cut out and replaced to fix the leak.

The company that did the installation was a local one, not selected by us but Scottish gas as part of a grant although we had to pay about a 3rd of the cost.

A surveyor from "Scottish Gas" came today to inspect the central heating installation work. He was giving us the "oh these pipes have been poorly lagged, I will get on to the installation company and get them to put more lagging in, etc"....but when I looked at the inspection sheet, he has "PASSED" the PIPE INSUALTION OK.....have just noticed he has also "PASSED" the LOFT INSTALLATION TO CORRECT DEPTH but he didn't even go up in the loft to check. There is a column for remedial work but he has not written anything in this...... making me think we have been had by his act.
I am wondering now if he was from Scottish Gas after all......as I was told by the Energy Assistance (grant people) that they don't always use their own surveyors, they can sometimes even use surveyors from the company that carries out the installation.....which is what i think has happened.....but then he was waring British Gas clothes and driving British gas van....don't know what to make of it.....think I will get onto the grant people.

dlm4473

You should contact both the grant people and BG themselves with your concerns. As the profits from such schemes are relatively small i think you will find that they will show little interest in your dilemma.

You should be persistent enough with your complaints and demand all issues are resolved - while in an ideal world you might assume this would be done soon after first complaint, you may be disappointed !

A tactic I used quite successfully recently was to demand a site visit from an installation manager to a poorly fitted kitchen of one of the large DIY chains. I left a file folder and a camera in a prominent place in the kitchen and stood quietly at the back of the room while the householders presented their list of complaints.

I only spoke when he started to talk some rubbish about why he thought the sink kept coming loose - I politely asked him if he didn't think it was because the hole had been cut to large, at which point he told the houses holders he would replace the worktops and have a new sink fitted !

I take it that as he had no idea who I was (actually friend of the family) or why I was there - he decided to play it safe and replace half the kitchen and all the plumbing. As the house holders had been trying to resolve the issues for over a year I am smugly satisfied with my role.

I would advise you check over all work that has been done ( a knowledgeable friend if you can't do it yourself) and arm yourself with full knowledge before speaking with them - Don't let them fob you off as it will end up costing YOU money in the future.

As a side note assuming that your system was drained by the leaking pipes (or in order to fix them) was the corrosion inhibitor replaced ? If not you will be facing more problems with your boiler and radiators in the not too distant future !

Good luck
Darren

ran123ran_2

The BG homecare man came to fit the new radiator last week.
I asked him if we needed corrosion inhibitor as the system drained due to burst pipes. He said that he would put some in the system.

I just left him to it. When he was about to leave I asked if the corrosion inhibitor was now in the system....he said " YES, I PUT IT THROUGH THE NEW RADIATOR".

When I went to the utility room, I found the remnants of fitting a new radiator like radiator packaging, thread, little bolt things but there was no bottle/container for this corrosion inhibitor....making me think he did not put any in like last week.

What type of packaging does corrosion inhibitor come in?

WhiteHorse

There's no way a new radiator should leak like this. It's almost certainly leaking on a stamping or spot weld point. Although it might just be an unlucky random defect, it's more usually a sign of poor quality.

In exceptionately severe conditions, pipes very close to or actually touching an outside wall can freeze.

Meatballs

My washing machine froze this morning, waste pipe is strategically placed infront of an air brick! Doh...