Nissan leaf

jaydeeuk1

Bestbuy in Derby has electric filling station in its parking spaces.
Electric cars won't catch on whilst using conventional batteries. They're quite slow to charge, last only a few years before needing replacing and (in the case of the prius atleast) expensive to replace. Thats why toyota reduced battery warranty on new model - was costing them a fortune. Be like selling a family hatchback petrol car with a cambelt that costs £4k to replace - probably won't do resale much good.


Give it 10 years when battery tech catches up, and it might be worthwhile.

martinslittlehelper

First of this is my first post so be gentle....

I have personally spent some time online doing research on these ev's and would like to spread my findings. I too had lost questions similar to the above.

EV's have been around for over a hundred years. It fact around a hundred years ago there were more EV's on the road than combustions vehicles. This was because fuel was harder to get hold of and also produced fumes. This was mainly the case till until Henry Ford's model T came out, which changed things.

EV's or Hydrogen. People need to a little research. After just a short period you will find Hydrogen sounds great in principle but practically is not the case. It has been about years away for the past 30 years. A couple of key problems is the cost of producing the fuel cell(needed in each vehicle) is about £500,000. Then the cost of making the hydrogen itself, there is lots of energy used to produce this. Then of course transport of this to the fueling station - also energy used. Also the large pushers of this seem to be which related companies? have a guess? The EV infrastructure is in place. A plug!

Oh yes when we talk about emissions remember lets say your car is only releasing about 100g CO2, it is actually about 400g CO2. Why, well think about the energy used to drill it out of the ground, transport it to a refinery, then refine (each refinery uses in aday enough to energy as abouy 250,000 houses - as quoted by a man who runs one!), then transport to the fueling station. One of the dirtiest forms of Electricity can be coal (I'm told)with at worst only produces 100g Co2 in comparison with the above!

People must remember these are the first EV's. They may not look the best nor will they have the best performance. How many years has it taken to get a family sized car to 70-80mpg? It takes time and these will get better. Remember the mobile phone just 5 or 10 years ago!

Range Anxiety or owning what happens if I run out of fuel. When was the last time you ran out of fuel in your car? On average people do not travel more than a 100 miles per day. So do you really need something that goes further. Well if you do then the first EV's may not be for you, unless you want a tesla which do over 200. Or the new Tesla S which will give you over 200 also.

Some good references worth looking at

Who killed the electric car - great doc
fullycharged - Robert Lewllyn
allcarselectric
what is the electric car - out this weeked
revenge of the electric car
source london
ev network .org

Leaf charging - takes about 28mins in a fast charge and about 6 - 8 hours from a normal plug socket. The car for the price is also fully packed with technology and gadgets!


FYI - I not a tree hugging, sandle wearing green activist but fair play if you are. I'm a petrol head who loves technology.


Some benefits from the source london site

The initial outlay might be significantly higher, but the main thing is EVs are cheaper to run...

What's it likely to cost me?
A new electric car with the same specification as a conventional car may cost more but they are significantly cheaper to run. The initial cost of the vehicles is expected to come down as the demand for them increases. Electric two-wheelers cost pretty much the same as their conventional cousins. Here’s what getting behind the wheel of your EV means for your bank balance.
You could save around £3,000 a year:

You don’t have to pay the Congestion Charge - a saving of up to £1,696 for cars and vans
No road tax
Lower fuel costs. For example, for 10,000 miles you’d pay around £250 a year for your EV. For petrol or diesel you’d expect to pay around £1,370. That’s a saving of over £1,100
You're also less affected by fluctuating fuel prices.
Lower maintenance costs. The lack of complex parts (no gearboxes or engine) can make EVs cheaper to look after.
Type Petrol/diesel cars average costs Electric vehicle average costs Savings!
Fuel based on an average annual mileage of 10,000 £1,370 £250 £1,120
Estimated servicing, maintenance and repair £220 £190 £30
100% discount from the Congestion Charge £1,696 free £1,696
Road tax for a typical family car in Band F £125 free £125
Total average annual running costs £3,410 £440
£2,970
At the moment electric cars and vans do cost more to buy than their petrol or diesel equivalents; how much more depends on size. A small car, for example, might cost around £10,000 more than a petrol or diesel car that size. That’s down to the cost of the battery and having fewer EVs on the production line at the moment. However a number of car manufacturers are planning launch EVs in the next few years so more choice should result in lower costs in the future.
To help overcome the higher up-front cost of electric cars, the Government recently confirmed a grant to subsidise 25% of the purchase price of a pure or plug-in hybrid EV up to a maximum of £5,000. The Plug-In Car Grant will be available to consumers and businesses from January 2011, and the discount will be applied at the dealership. More information on the grant is available on the Office for Low Emission Vehicles website.
There are environmental benefits too...


Along with cheaper running costs there’s a powerful environmental motive to drive an electric vehicle. There’s no doubt that EVs are a major part of our future.
Despite significant improvements in recent years, air quality remains a concern in London. The Mayor of London has a legal obligation to take steps towards meeting national and European Union air quality objectives which are designed to protect human health. In London, road transport is the single biggest source of particulate matter and nitrogen oxides. These are the primary causes of air quality-related health problems, including worsening symptoms of asthma.
Here's the science bit...

The UK is the world’s eighth largest producer of CO2 emissions. London is responsible for 8 per cent of them.
Some 44 million tonnes of CO2 are produced every year in London
Transport (cars, trucks, trains etc) is responsible for 22 per cent of London's CO2 emissions. Of that, road traffic is responsible for the vast majority (81 per cent) of our transport CO2 emissions.
Pure electric vehicles have zero emissions while they're being driven (i.e. from the vehicle itself). The CO2 produced by an EV is directly related to the how the electricity it uses is produced, but even using the current standard UK supply, a pure EV produces up to 40% less CO2 than a similar petrol or diesel vehicle.
By driving petrol and diesel cars we personally contribute to climate change as well as emitting harmful pollutants that are damaging to health. Reduced traffic pollution will improve the health and quality of life of people who live in, work in and visit London, especially those suffering from respiratory or cardiovascular illnesses that restrict their daily activities. With a switch to EVs you’ll help tackle climate change and to help clean up London’s air.
And not only that, EVs are much quieter too.

There’s no Congestion Charge – a saving of up to £1,764 a year for fleet vehicles
No company car tax for five years
No van benefit charge for five years - currently £3,000 a year
No Vehicle Excise Duty including no first year higher rate
No fuel benefit charge
No fuel duty
100% ‘write down’ in your first year for new EVs you buy under Enhanced Capital Allowances. Businesses can relieve the entire cost of an electric car or van against taxable profits in the year of acquisition
Lower fuel costs. For example, for 20,000 miles you’d pay around £800 a year for your EV. For petrol or diesel you’d expect to pay around £2,400 - that’s a saving of £1600
Potential lower maintenance costs - for more information please see All about EVs.
Immediate compliance for larger vans and minibuses with the Low Emission Zone – a saving of up to £200 a day that a non-compliant vehicle would be charged to drive in Greater London
Free or discounted parking spaces may be available depending on your area.
At a national level, the Government will be offering a grant to subsidise 25% of the purchase price of a pure electric or plug-in hybrid electric car (M1 class only) up to a maximum of £5,000. The Plug-In Car Grant will be available to consumers and businesses from January 2011, and the discount will be applied at the dealership. More information on the grant is available on the Office for Low Emission Vehicles website.
There are a number of EVs already on the market – find out more about current and forthcoming models.

10JH

What about depreciation though.

There are worries about if the charging points don't actually reach popularity, or if another green tech takes over then these will fall like a stone in value.

getmore4less

Was in a major city in china and there were loads of electric vehicles mainly bikes and scooters but also some cars.

Removable battery packs so you can take them indoors to charge and have more than one on the bikes and scooters

There is a place for the EV but for now most people in the UK would need something else to meet all their needs

For the short commute, school, shopping, about town runs fine but many people need the longer distances as well so a chance with the 2 car family

A lot of people don't have a place to park a vehicle to charge at home.

If a vehicle has very low cost to just sit there(tax/insure/mot) and held value just through maintanence(like a push bike) then there could be a market.

Problem I see is that whatever you buy it will get overtaken by advances before the payback.

iolanthe07

According to Honest John in today's Telegraph, putting the heater on in the Peugeot iON reduces the range by 45%. Air conditioning reduces the range by 25%. Batteries are not efficient in cold weather, so electric cars would be a hell of a gamble in the winter.

davidjwest

The problem is the oil companies are too powerful and they see EVs (and probably Hydrogen etc) as a threat to their profits.

We should be driving Hydrogren powered cars by now, if it weren't for greed.

EVs might be a viable stop gap if the technology can be improved.

martinslittlehelper

depreciation should not be too much. it has been confirmed that the leaf will hold at least 47% of its value after three years which is more than most including the prius, insight and other greener vehicles. Check Nissan Leaf on facebook UK. It was posted the other day - I think from CAP - Black Book.

EV's mean will take time to become the norm but I really do feel that it is one of the best routes. We have to change the oil will not be there forever and at the rates they at the pump are now starting to hit the pocket HARD! more price rises again with the VAT going up. Personally I feel we will see £1.50 per litre in the next 18mths. Change is never easy and you have to make sacrifices but IT IS COMING!

FYI - The Americans have ordered over 20,000 of the leafs and can't get enough of EV's (there are now trying to find ways to them to market sooner). I really can't see then disappearing in the near future. They are here to stay.

One a separate note they will be built the leafs will be built in the UK as of next year. You can't beet British! Also remember the majority of the time you are spending at the pumps we are sending the money abroad. Billions each year are leaving the UK economy. When you plug in, you have the option to use a British supplier! Nothing against globalization but it's always good to have the option!

Rossy.

martinslittlehelper wrote: »

depreciation should not be too much. it has been confirmed that the leaf will hold at least 47% of its value after three years which is more than most including the prius, insight and other greener vehicles. Check Nissan Leaf on facebook UK. It was posted the other day - I think from CAP - Black Book.

EV's mean will take time to become the norm but I really do feel that it is one of the best routes. We have to change the oil will not be there forever and at the rates they at the pump are now starting to hit the pocket HARD! more price rises again with the VAT going up. Personally I feel we will see £1.50 per litre in the next 18mths. Change is never easy and you have to make sacrifices but IT IS COMING!

Nothing is ever confirmed in depreciation. The factors that decide that are purely based on supply and demand

If no one wants one then they'll have to sell it cheaper to entice someone to buy it and thus they may not achieve that depreciation base line.

I for one don't have a care in the world in regards to global warming. It's been happening for millions of years and we "may" have accelerated it slighlty by our life styles.

They bleat on about oil reserves all the time but i personally think that there is enough oil left in this world to provide me with a conventional combustion engine until i pass away. They haven't even found every oil source yet so there's plenty of time to drill for it.

As you can probably tell i don't care much for global warming, It's mostly scare mongering by our governments/media that makes people believe in it's effects.

Rossy.

martinslittlehelper wrote: »

Also remember the majority of the time you are spending at the pumps we are sending the money abroad.

No

Were lining the pockets of our treasury.

I can't remember the exact amount but out of 1 litre of diesel at say £1.25 a litre, about 80 pence of that goes straight to the treasury.

Governments make billions and billions of pounds from fuel duty. Ours takes advantage big time. With eleccy vehicles where will they get their billions from?

Of course us the people of this country in another stealth tax scam

vikingaero

CAP went out on a limb to predict the Leafs residual value. No doubt they were "convinced" by a deal with CAP's business manager and Nissan.

Yes the Leaf may have a residual of 47% at 3 years old. But the battery is "expected" to retain 70-80% of capacity after 10 years. So lets strip out marketing BS and call it 60% real world after 5 years. What happens to the residual value of the car at 5 years old when it may only have a range of 60 miles and the closer it edges to 10 years old and a new battery pack cost of £6,000.