how is it hard for ftb to get onto the ladder in all places?

meanmachine_2

barnaby-bear wrote:

So they probably shouldn't be FTB with no savings/deposits - mortgage multiples used to be 3-3.5 single salary but you HAD to have a deposit.

That's a fair point. What was the LTV of a standard mortgage before Thatch threw the rule book out the window and let the money men take over the world?

I'm guessing it was 85%, on a single income and you had to have a penis, too.

mrsS_2

shouldnt we be comparing prices of ftbyer houses and ftb incomes rather than ftbyer incomes and average house prices?

ready to be shot down in flames by meanmachine-

but 20 years ago ftbyers nearly all had deposits
they didnt have student debts
the expectations of what they were prepared to buy were somewhat lower (grotty one bed flat scenario)
they expected to do it on 2 incomes

[Deleted User]

they didnt have student debts

Very true, they had grants. I bet stamp duty matched realistic values as well.

mrsS_2

yes- they had grants which those of us who didnt do the university thing subsidised via our taxes. At some point someone decided that as graduates would earn more over their working life that this wasnt fair and they should pay for it themselves.

I think that the powers that be didnt count on the fact that as everyone now gets 4 A levels (compared to only the clever people in my day) and now in order to get any sort of decent job you have to have a degree- whether you actually need one to do the job you are doing or not.

result is lots of people in debt for a not particularly worthwhile qualification and 4 years delay in getting on the housing market.

my personal opinion is that we should bring back means tested grants but with the current number of people doing degrees this would probably put an awful lot back on our taxes- but we are going to be funding these people in their old age anyway if they have no capital because they havent managed to buy a property or save for their retirement because of student debt and lifelong renting.

MascaraMinx

I'm loving all the 100% mortgage- no savings bashing.

Dead_Eye_Jones wrote:

if you dont have any money you cant have a house, I think this has been the case for quite a while now!

However, I presume if I had parents who were happy to hand over £10k to me for my deposit then that would be okay then. I shouldn't expect to be allowed to purchase a property if I have no savings, but if someone is going to give me a handout to be able to afford it then that's acceptable? Never mind that I am happy to put myself in a difficult position financially for a few years so that I can finance it myself and take responsibility for it all?

Perhaps only privileged people should be allowed to own property, those that haven't ever racked up any debts because every thing has been handed to them on a plate, haven't had to fund their own education and make their own way through life.

Sapphire

mrsS wrote:

yes- they had grants which those of us who didnt do the university thing subsidised via our taxes. At some point someone decided that as graduates would earn more over their working life that this wasnt fair and they should pay for it themselves.

I think that the powers that be didnt count on the fact that as everyone now gets 4 A levels (compared to only the clever people in my day) and now in order to get any sort of decent job you have to have a degree- whether you actually need one to do the job you are doing or not.

result is lots of people in debt for a not particularly worthwhile qualification and 4 years delay in getting on the housing market.

my personal opinion is that we should bring back means tested grants but with the current number of people doing degrees this would probably put an awful lot back on our taxes- but we are going to be funding these people in their old age anyway if they have no capital because they havent managed to buy a property or save for their retirement because of student debt and lifelong renting.

A better proposition would be to introduce an apprenticeship system for many jobs - where people could learn on the job, getting paid a low wage initially, rather than going to university. Many of the types of degree that are currently popular, e.g. media studies and 'arts' degrees for the untalented, are useless as preparation for work.

I left school at 17 and went into publishing at a low level because I really wanted to work on books. I couldn't at the time think of any degree I wanted to do, even though all three of my siblings went to university.

From there I managed to learn things on the job while working for several major publishing companies, gradually attaining more and more senior positions. This was really the best way to prepare for work in publishing, and I learned a huge amount in the junior jobs as well as the senior ones - as well as having a lot of fun and interesting times.

mrsS_2

You are absolutely right

however most of the apprenticeships that were around then are not available now.

I left school at 18 to also work on books- I became a chartered accountant. The year after I started the Institute decided it would no longer accept anyone with just A levels- however good they were and the job became graduate entry only.

So to do the same job now i would HAVE to get a degree- it wouldnt make me any better at my job-just older!

how do we turn back the clock?

meanmachine_2

mrsS wrote:

shouldnt we be comparing prices of ftbyer houses and ftb incomes rather than ftbyer incomes and average house prices?

ready to be shot down in flames by meanmachine-

But the average FTBer age is 34 - absolute peak earnings and above average.

Why are we expected to buy below average when we won't be earning any more and won't be able to climb the ladder?

Jeez I'm bored of making this same argument with a bunch of boomers who, quite frankly, don't understand that a high wage inflation economy is different to a low wage one.

Pauper_Princess

mrsS - bit of an aside, but you might be interested to know that the Institute has now turned tables - they are so desperate for members that they're letting in non-graduates, I got in through the AAT route and I think they now let in A students but could be wrong.

Jim_B_3

bs0u0128 wrote:

assuming as well to call judgements on, not a business mind there

Says the man arguing with strangers on the internet about the economics of selling his house.