Can a Housing Association still maintain rights over a 100% owned freehold property?

rhubarb1

Maxjessdru - thanks for the understanding. They are part of a huge solicitors firm and they boast that; "
Whilst xxxx is designed to provide fixed price services to our B2B contacts, if you have clients with other more complex needs we have the benefit of direct access to the xxxx private client team.
They can help your clients with other property related matters, such as tax and inheritance advice or advising on the division of property and capital assets when a relationship breaks down.

I have emailed them and copied the email in to her supervisor. The email states that one of the first questions we asked them and emailed them about (I have the original email from the 17th of Nov) was regarding the boundary of the property and the importance that we were able to reclaim the land attached to the property for our own use.

Sorry to hear about your property. Have you bought anything since? What happened to the original property?

Pigster_2

The covenant clause added by the HA does state that "any consent [is] not to be unreasonably witheld". That could be taken to mean that it would be more or less a formality, albeit admittedly a slight nuisance.

paddy's_mum

An almost identical thing also happened to me many years ago and we ended up pulling out at the last minute. Despite all the upset and the enormous dent to our wallets, our attitude was that we didn't intend to pay freehold price for what amounted to 'leasehold' property.

It is heartbreaking, I understand that, but your "covenant" is not half so stringent as the one we were faced with since in your paperwork it clearly states that consent shall not be unreasonably withheld. With a body such as a HA and as such, subject to scrutiny, I'd bet money that they would actually be reasonable, not least because (IIRC) you are able to take any dispute which arose to a Lands Tribunal for resolution.

Hope things work out for you.

carefullycautious

Have you tried talking with your neighbours and asking how they find dealing with this covenant. Have any of the neighbours put conservatories on or changed layout

This will give you an idea as to whether the HA is agreeable to some works. If not then you will have to walk away.

As you so rightly said why pay freehold to find you have leasehold rules

rhubarb1

carefullycautious wrote: »

Have you tried talking with your neighbours and asking how they find dealing with this covenant. Have any of the neighbours put conservatories on or changed layout

This will give you an idea as to whether the HA is agreeable to some works. If not then you will have to walk away.

As you so rightly said why pay freehold to find you have leasehold rules

That's a good idea, thanks. We'll pass by once my other half gets home from work and knock on a few doors.
My main concern however remains the boundary of the property and whether or not the HA can instruct us to retract our boundary line for road widening purposes. The solicitor refuses to look into this for us, saying it's not part of their conveyancing duties.

sonastin

My thoughts on this thread:

1) I wouldn't expect to find out about the covenants until quite late in the day. You'll have to incur solicitors fees in finding out what the covenants say and I'd want my survey doing early doors to make sure that the house was fundamentally sound before I got too far into the process. So I'm not surprised that you've spent a lot of money before you get to the point of finding out about the covenant.

2) The restrictions on the interior/exterior of the property say that permission can't be "unreasonably withheld". Taking away the emotional principle behind objecting to it, from a practical perspective, what would you want to do, what reasons could they have for withholding permission and what consequences would you face if it you went ahead anyway without permission? I think in real terms it isn't actually an issue, regardless of how late in the day you've found out.

3) Houses are bought and sold with restrictive covenants all the time. This one wouldn't bother me and I wouldn't be too worried about it bothering buyers further down the line either. The longer a covenant is in place the less likely it is to be enforced - particularly once neighbours start ignoring it and setting precedents as well. I doubt it will affect your chances of re-sale.

4) The boundary issue is an entirely separate question to the original post. You need your solicitor to explain the legalese that you quoted. If the person doing your conveyancing isn't a solicitor, you need to be referred to someone more senior in the practice who can explain it to you. It is your conveyancer's responsiblity to make sure you understand the contract you are being asked to sign. If they don't understand it or can't explain it to you, find yourself a conveyancer who can.

rhubarb1

Thanks Sonastin.
As I understand it most covenants are restrictive towards altering the exterior of the property but not the interior. As ours does mention the interior, it does make you wonder if they would withhold permission and what reasons they have for specifying that you do not alter the interior.

I am trying to get hold the HA to ask about the covenant and to be reassured that we can do minor alterations and additions but no-one is picking up the phone their end, perhaps he is stuck in snow?

I will call the solicitors that the conveyancers are attached to and ask about the boundary as that is hugely important to us. The HA is neither a national nor public authority so they shouldn't be able to take land from us without buying it, but as this covenant is so restrictive I do want to double-check that they cannot move our boundary. I would have thought that would be done under conveyancing, but perhaps not.

And what is "unreasonably withheld"? What is classed as unreasonable? I really need to speak to the HA but that may have to wait until tomorrow now - if they bother to pick up their phones then.

Richard_Webster

Can I make the point again that the covenants are normal?

If every house buyer moaned about covenants like these then nobody would buy anything.

I am still not completely clear what OP means by "Conveyance report". Perhaps it is a copy of an earlier transfer or conveyance? If so just because that document didn't impose any covenants doesn't mean that the HA can't do so now.

This is just like some landowner selling a chunk of land to Barratts who then build houses on that land and sell them and impose covenants about not making alterations without Barratt's consent. Original landlowner may not have imposed any covnenats when he sold to Barratts but nothing to stop Barratts doing so when they sell the individual house plots and builders such as that routinely do so.

The second covenant about complying with statutory requirements:

"To execute and do at the expense of the Transferee all such works and things whatever as may at any time during the term be directed or required by any national or other public authority to be executed or done upon or in respect of the property or any part thereof"

only allows them to make you do what they can lawfully make you do.

If they want to take your land for a highway widening then the Highway Authority would have to make a Compulsory Purchase Order and they would have to do that whether or not this clause was included. It is probably more about complying with existing or new laws than any horrors such as OP is thinking about, e.g government says that to save energy all houses have to have solar panels fitted by 2015. That might be expensive but if it was the law you would have to do it.

rhubarb1

Thanks Richard. However can you just confirm that most convenants restrict what you can do to the exterior of the property, they do not normally restrict what you can do to the interior of the property.

I have just spoken to the HA at last. Apparently their tenants who are in the Right to Buy scheme have a covenant imposed that restricts alterations or additions to the exterior but never the interior. So these tenants would enjoy more rights than we would as buyers of the freehold. How is that fair?

Also, things like knocking the fireplace through to insert a wood burner, or putting in a downstairs loo as well as adding a porch and small conservatory would all need written permission from the HA and that costs upwards of £50 a time.

Thanks for clarifying the border issue, that is a huge relief just to know that.

theartfullodger

rhubarb1 wrote: »

............... How is that fair?

...............

Life ain't fair. No offence but, get over it & move on. If you don't like the terms on offer make a counter proposal or go elsewhere.. (but you knew you had those options eh??)

Cheers!

Artful

PS SUMO??