Going court need help

dacouch

They are a very unusual company run by a self made millionaire who runs his business in a very odd way, he used creative accounting to loan money to his other businesses who bought £100s of millions of shares in the Anglo Irish Bank. You may know of the Anglo Irish bank as they are one of the reasons Ireland is in so many problems, the reported bail out of Anglo Irish could be well over £25billion. So it was not the best investment...

The loans to his other companies by his Insurer were shown as assets whereas they should not really be assets, an Insurer has to keep set amounts of liquid funds available in relation to the amount of premiums they collect. This is to ensure they have sufficient assets to meet their liabilities (Claims). The doodaa hit the fan earlier in the year when this came fully to light (Although there were warning signs as the company were fined £3m in 2008 for dodgy loans and Quinn himself was personally fined 200k euros) and Quinn nearly went t!t$ up but as they as such a large company / employer in Ireland / Northern Ireland they were rescued.

They had a period where they would not release their accounts to the rating agencies who give an Insurer a credit rating, if the rating is not sufficient most brokers will not place business with them due to FSA regulations on best practice or will point out to a customer the possible perils of dealing with the Insurer. Quinn allegedly stated he knew how rich he was and did not need a rating agency to confirm it! They back tracked when they realised they were losing business to this and then oddly stopped supplying the data to the rating agencies when things were going wrong...

If you know anything of Quinn Insurance you would understand their cavalier approach to giving driving other cars and their approach to claims (If they receive a fault accident with the possibility of an injury they have a local manager go around to the third party and write a cheque out for below what the claim is for and offer it to the third party with the caveat that if they don't accept it Quinn will fight the claim as much as possible).

Have a read of this news report on one of their famous claims and the dubious actions of one of their senior managers http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2007/may/20/judge-slams-quinn-direct-in-54m-dispute/

dacouch

Hammyman wrote: »

Not sufficient. It can state that and then in the fully policy it may state, like most, that the car has to be insured in its own right.

Indeed they can tag it on, however the Road Traffic Act applies to the certificate so the Insurer would still normally be liable for the third party claim and can then assuming they have the wording in their policy try to recover from the policyholder.

The Certificate of Insurance is a legal document that complies with the RTA, have a look at your own certificate and note the words in bold on it stating "Notice to third parties, nothing contained on this certificate affects your ability to make a claim"

In actually fact it is the vast majority of Insurers who do not insist on the other car being insured not the other way around as you are stating

JQ.

This is exactly the reason I'm with a mainstream insurer who appear to have a good record on claims. My car is quite modified, both performance, safety and visually. Got some good quotes last year from specialist modified brokers, but they were using insurance co.'s I'd never heard of. A couple of hours later and lots of googling and these smaller firms appear to have absolutley terrible reputations should you need to make a claim.

Personally I'd rather pay the extra £50 a year knowing that should the worst happen, I'm with an insurer working with me, rather than against me.

(Dacouch - I dare not say what co. I'm with as you'll probably say they're terrible for claims, but it's Direct Line)

dacouch

DL are pretty good, they see themselves as a premium brand and give a good service and reasonable cover. Their prices are not always the cheapest but as with anything in life cheapest is not always best.

The modified specialist probably quoted you with companies such as Chaucer, KGM, Tradex, Zenith etc where you would get what you pay for. As a general rule in my opinion / experience when it comes to motor insurance it is generally best to avoid Lloyd's Syndicates and Insurers based in Gibralter. They may have also quoted you with Highway who used to be very bad but have greatly improved since LV took them over

JQ.

Yep Chaucer rings a bell, quoted through Adrian Flux or Sky. Unfortunately it looks like DL won't want my business next year as the car's likely to get supercharged and I know they will definately say no to that one. So I'll have no choice but to use the brokers - just have to make sure I don't crash.

esmerobbo

So it seems the OP has a good chance of having his claim paid even if Quinns say no should it need to go further. In the meantime it does not help him with his up coming court case regards representation unless he can have it adjourned?

Dacouch you were correct earlier the policy I quoted from was a multicar [Me,, Daughter, & S in L two cars] with Admiral. My other car is with RSA and basically says if I have a valid licence and its roadworthy I can drive it.

dorisday

JQ. wrote: »

I may be wrong and get shot down in flames, but I have 100% zero sympathy.

So you were driving a car belonging to your father. That car had no insurance policy on it, so presumably your father never actually drove it. You had been stopped by the police several times before as presumably it pings their ANPR cameras and they have to phone Quinn every time they stop you as the car you are driving has no insurance on it. Sounds like it's actually your car.

Looks to me like you can't afford to insure your car and so have a policy on a cheaper smaller less powerfull car that enables you to drive your car Third Party.

It's people like you pushing up the cost of insurance for the rest of us. Hopefully it'll be a lesson learned.















ps - have you checked the Quinn T&C's to see if they have an age restriction on the Third Party cover - it's normally 25, but I think Quinn were targetting the younger insurance market so it may not have one.

You should be writing fairy tales seems you are good at making things up:rotfl:

JQ.

dorisday wrote: »

You should be writing fairy tales seems you are good at making things up:rotfl:

Feel free to point out the factually incorrect elements.

Have you actually read the whole thread?

It would appear Quinn actively target young people for exactly this reason - insure a low value car and you can then drive any other more powerful / valuable cars TP. OP has actually stated this is the reason he used them. Should you then have a crash they then deny the claims when customers try to make a claim. I guess if they can get 50% of claims to disappear they may still make some money. Although it would appear they have actually made their money from have creating debt where other insurance companies are not able, which I guess we're all now paying for in the Irish Bail Out.

This used to be a method of young people avoiding sky high insurance premiums similar to fronting. However, it would appear most reputable insurance companies closed the loophole. Quinn are still at it.

poor_student1234

esmerobbo wrote: »

Did the OP still have his own car? My policy reads: Driving someone else's car.

1 your current Certificate of Motor Insurance says so
2 you hold a valid Driving Licence and are not disqualified
3 the other car is not owned by you, a rental car, nor hired to you under a hire purchase or leasing agreement
4 you have the owner’s permission to drive the car
5 there is a valid insurance policy in force for that car
6 you are not covered by any other insurance to drive it
7 you still have your car, and it has not been damaged beyond repair, stolen nor sold

Which reads the same as Quinns except clause 5!
Then Quinns have said the reason the claim is denied is that no insurance was in force for the OPs fathers car. Surely if the clause is not there they can not use it?

Hi,
Could you tell me what insurance company your with, is there any chance you could also scan a copy so i could use as evidence that other insurers state car must be insured in their terms.

Also i phoned up the MIB solicitors today and they told me that i have to file a defence by the 1oth of December but the court date hasn't been set yet and its probably gonna take a few months. This gives me a bit more time to get Quinn to accept my claim.

Coursework deadline today so been very busy and couldn't phone Quinn or even write a letter.

Plan for tomorrow.
1. Phone Quinn claims department and ask for manager. Tell him im going to go to the ombudsman if he dont listen.

2. Write a letter saying that Quinn have 7 days to reply otherwise i will be starting court proceedings against them.

3. Phone Quinn for my subject access rights, hopefully get them sent out and also write a letter demanding my subject access rights.

I also have a friend who was in the same boat as me but didnt have an accident but got stopped by police because he used to drive bangers (not insured but belonging to someone else). You reckon i could use his subject access rights for further evidence that i was insured to drive any car with permission even if it didnt have insurance of its own

dacouch

You have a certificate of Insurance that is a legal document confirming you are covered, this in conjunction with your policy confirms you are covered.

the absence of the requirement in the policy for the car to be covered means the other car does not need it's own cover. It's basic contract law, you do not need to send in a copy of someone else's policy showing theirs includes the wording (If you really want to you can download a policy wording from admiral which shows it in their policy).

I did not realise the MIB are involved, try giving them a ring and explain the situation that you are actually covered by Quinn and offer to send them a copy of your certificate and policy wording (You can download a policy wording from quinn's website). Hopefully they should be able to redirect the claim to Quinn for you. Alternatively try giving the Financial Ombudsman a call as sometimes they will call the Insurer and make them see sense.