Dogs had to leave obedience class! Help! :)

wilykit

i have posted on here before regarding my dogs- a male English Bull Terrier and a female American Bull Dog.

The male is 2 and the female 1.

I got my EBT in January - he had been kept seperate as the family's other dog didn't like him.

I got my ABD in July - she had been kept outside in a tiny yard most her life.

Both of them lack basic manners - they snatch food, they pull on the lead and generally have no respect for me or my boyfriend!

My ABD acts as though you are going to hit her sometimes and I think this stems back from the previous owners as she has been like this from day 1. We try to reassure her but she is still a bit skitty

We enrolled them on an obedience course to try and sort out their problems. The first week resulted in not much progress, and when I tried training at home neither of them seemed interested.

Earlier we took them to the 2nd class and we ended up having to leave as the dogs were being so disruptive!

They can focus for a little while but then get distracted and it is impossible to carry on trying to teach them.

Does anybody have any tips or advice on what else I can try?

Thanks

sarabe

You need some help on a one to one basis from a professional rather than a hobby dog training club.

No point putting a dog into a class situation if they can't cope with it.

You should find somone on the APDT list in your area or a personal reccomendation from local dog owners.

Kittendreich

Try another class (either at the same club or anther one) - the way you describe your dogs they are exactly the type of dogs who should be going to classes (and who the trainers should encourage to keep coming no matter how much harder it makes teaching the class for them). The dogs who do everything they are told first time and know how to behave around other dogs and people are not the ones who 'need' to be there (but long term attendance at classes is good to keep them that way!). Especially with breeds that lots of people will judge harshly I think it is really important to ensure that you have them well socialised and trained - both for your own peace of mind and to go against the steroetype of those types of breeds.

Even my dog, who is a pushover, took several weeks to get used to the idea of training - so many interesting smells and other dogs to say hello to! On our first week all dogs had to lie down and stay for a minute....the minute was up and I hadn't even got him to lie down yet! Nobody would expect to be able to drive a car after one lesson...I don't think dog training is any different. Terriers and Bull breeds are often really stubborn and can be really difficult to train - yours also have difficult pasts which will make it even harder.

One to one training would also be an option if you can afford it, but that won't help with socialisation of your dogs.

Could you go to the class with just one dog at a time - participate for a short while and then just sit at the side with your dog? This will help gain concentration while there are other dogs there. Teach some easy tricks (paw, high five, leave) at home and then use these while sitting with your dog (and some tasty treats!) to keep his attention on you and not the other dogs. Slowly you could build up the time that you participate in the class?

Good luck with them and well done for giving them a better life.

Raksha

I'd agree with taking one at a time, if taken together then may well be backing each other up and winding each other up.

Also, a good trainer would be helping you to work around these problems, not simply banishing you from the class.......

sarabe

The problem with being in a class if your dog is 'disruptive' or unable to concentrate is that they learn the wrong things a lot of the time.

If you have a shy or nervous dog in a class then a boisterous out of control dog could compromise their learning too.

Learning is best done in an environment with few distractions and the distractions added gradually for best results.

A good trainer that offers one to one training will also have suitable social groups or their own dogs available if needed.

I run classes for the very young pup and follow on classes for as long as they want to keep coming. They have learnt to learn within the class environment from the word go.

Adult dogs that need help with training are very rarely going to learn much in a class environment and they are treated individually and the training tailored to suit.

Raksha

Agree 100% Sarabe, which is why I said a good trainer would help the owner with workarounds - such as finding the distance from the other dogs at which the dog can listen to it's owner, concentrating on rewarding the good behaviour, even just a millisecond of it and build on that. Maybe moving the dog to another room (we used to use the hallway as the dog then had limited visual contact with the other dogs, but the owner could hear what I was saying).

wilykit

where we took them wasn't a 'hobby' dog club, the woman IS a professional. The dogs got so worked up that we decided it was best to take them out and try one on one training, which we are going to sort out.

I tried carrying on the training after the 1st class at home - things such as getting them to focus their attention on me and teaching them to sit, stay, lay etc - I did it with each dog seperately, and to be honest they couldn't have been less interested!! I am still going to persist, and I understand it will take time.

I just feel really bad for them as their previous owners obviously didn't give a !!!!!!!!!!!

EmptyPockets

What methods of training are you using at home? How do you reward them?

If they quickly lose interest in what you're doing, then I'd say the reward you're using isn't high-value enough.

When we first started clicker-training with our two (Patterdale Terrier and Border Collie) I found if I tried using their regular food as reward, they lost interest within a couple of minutes and weren't trying very hard to do what I wanted. I started using things like small chunks of chicken, beef, lamb, cheese, and raw carrot. It was like I suddenly had a pot of gold in my hand, and their attention span went up a few notches!

I always make sure the training sessions stay fun for the dogs - if I think they're not really in the mood I will get them to do the basics which I know they're good at, and then try the newer stuff another time...

We're training them at home, with few distractions, for now. I sometimes do it one-on-one with each dog, and I also do it with them together - they seem to have great fun when we have the double training sessions! I was having trouble getting Bonnie to respond to 'Down' - she just would NOT do it! So I had her sit next to Bruce, who is the master of 'Down', it's his favourite trick haha! After watching me do it with him only three times, she instantly started doing it for me

As for snatching food, Bonnie was absolutely terrible when we first got her and would almost take fingers off. We started by offering her a small piece of food held between two fingers, something hard like carrot or dog biscuit - which can't be pulled apart from the fingers.

We offered her the food and said the word 'gently'. If she went to snatch we moved the food away. Then same approach, offering food with the word 'gently'. Each time she went to lunge or snatch at the food we pulled away. She would eventually put her mouth on the food slowly and gently, at which point we clicked and gave her the food, saying 'good gently'.

She now knows exactly what we want when we say the word 'gently', and won't snatch. Yes, she needs reminding often, but at least we're not losing a finger a day now

sarabe

wilykit wrote: »

where we took them wasn't a 'hobby' dog club, the woman IS a professional. The dogs got so worked up that we decided it was best to take them out and try one on one training, which we are going to sort out.

I tried carrying on the training after the 1st class at home - things such as getting them to focus their attention on me and teaching them to sit, stay, lay etc - I did it with each dog seperately, and to be honest they couldn't have been less interested!! I am still going to persist, and I understand it will take time.

I just feel really bad for them as their previous owners obviously didn't give a !!!!!!!!!!!

To be able to train your dogs and to get the absolute best out of them you should be looking at building value for the things that they want and then using that as rewards.

All dogs need food but if they have a bowlful of food on the kitchen floor twice a day for free then they are not going to be that fussed about any food you offer. You might get a response occasionally if you offer sausage or liver but if there is something more interesting going on then they'll be distracted.

Put all of their food into a container and use it as rewards and/or take it outside and feed them from your hand just for coming towards you when you say their name exitedly. You can then move on to this http://www.naturaldogblog.com/blog/2007/08/natural-dog-training-fundamentals-how-to-relax-and-attract-your-dog-using-pushing/


This is the most powerful thing you can do in terms of developing a bond with your dog. My 7 month old high prey drive dog turned away from a deer that took us by surprise 2 days ago to do this.

Same applies to toys and playing with each other. In my experience the best reward you can give your dog is play and fun. If they have their toys whenever they want and they play with them on their own or together then you producing a toy might attract them but only if there is nothing better to do.

Give them a chew toy or two but keep all raggers, balls, anything you can play with together away and get them out every time you have a spare minute and take them outside one at a time and play. One minute is long enough. Always leave them wanting more. Before you know it they will be turning somersaults for you on the promise of a fun game.

Terriers (and hounds) have a reputation for being stubborn and difficult to train but my experience with these breeds is to the contrary.

Certain breeds such as herding dogs and gundogs are bred to take instructions and work for us. Terriers and hounds are bred to work on their own. Consequently they are independant and very good at working things out for themselves.

This is why they only do things if it pleases them to do so as oppossed to hanging on to your every word waiting for the next command.

So with that in mind the easiest way to train the independant free - thinking breeds of dogs is to make them think it was their idea. Works with men too.

Start with the attention. Every time one of your dogs looks at you tell them 'good dog' and give them a treat. Don't ask for it - just wait. Before you know it they will be offering you attention more and more.


Once you have attention you can then teach them anything you want to. Don't make them do it though - make them want to do it.

Clicker training will really fast track everything. Clicker training is perfect for independant and difficult to train dogs because you can, if you want, just let them think they have trained you to pay them everytime they do a particular behaviour.

EmptyPockets

sarabe wrote: »

To be able to train your dogs and to get the absolute best out of them you should be looking at building value for the things that they want and then using that as rewards.

All dogs need food but if they have a bowlful of food on the kitchen floor twice a day for free then they are not going to be that fussed about any food you offer. You might get a response occasionally if you offer sausage or liver but if there is something more interesting going on then they'll be distracted.

Put all of their food into a container and use it as rewards and/or take it outside and feed them from your hand just for coming towards you when you say their name exitedly. You can then move on to this http://www.naturaldogblog.com/blog/2007/08/natural-dog-training-fundamentals-how-to-relax-and-attract-your-dog-using-pushing/


This is the most powerful thing you can do in terms of developing a bond with your dog. My 7 month old high prey drive dog turned away from a deer that took us by surprise 2 days ago to do this.

Same applies to toys and playing with each other. In my experience the best reward you can give your dog is play and fun. If they have their toys whenever they want and they play with them on their own or together then you producing a toy might attract them but only if there is nothing better to do.

Give them a chew toy or two but keep all raggers, balls, anything you can play with together away and get them out every time you have a spare minute and take them outside one at a time and play. One minute is long enough. Always leave them wanting more. Before you know it they will be turning somersaults for you on the promise of a fun game.

Terriers (and hounds) have a reputation for being stubborn and difficult to train but my experience with these breeds is to the contrary.

Certain breeds such as herding dogs and gundogs are bred to take instructions and work for us. Terriers and hounds are bred to work on their own. Consequently they are independant and very good at working things out for themselves.

This is why they only do things if it pleases them to do so as oppossed to hanging on to your every word waiting for the next command.

So with that in mind the easiest way to train the independant free - thinking breeds of dogs is to make them think it was their idea. Works with men too.

Start with the attention. Every time one of your dogs looks at you tell them 'good dog' and give them a treat. Don't ask for it - just wait. Before you know it they will be offering you attention more and more.


Once you have attention you can then teach them anything you want to. Don't make them do it though - make them want to do it.

Clicker training will really fast track everything. Clicker training is perfect for independant and difficult to train dogs because you can, if you want, just let them think they have trained you to pay them everytime they do a particular behaviour.

Brilliant post which I'll probably be reading over and over again when I need a bit of a 'boost'... 'Tis hard work training two rescues more or less on one's todd! Thanks Sarabe

sarabe

Thank you EP

You seem to be doing a great job with your two. :T