Disciplinary Help!!!

asea

Hello OP, apologies if someone else has already suggested it (have only had a quick look at the thread), but have you called ACAS? They can tell you what is what, legally, give you advice & tell you what your husband's rights are & where he stands. (& it's free). Their number is 08457 474747 & their website is http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410 . Good luck to you both. ACAS have been very helpful in the past when I've had employment issues.

iamana1ias

asea wrote: »

Hello OP, apologies if someone else has already suggested it (have only had a quick look at the thread), but have you called ACAS? They can tell you what is what, legally, give you advice & tell you what your husband's rights are & where he stands. (& it's free). Their number is 08457 474747 & their website is http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1410 . Good luck to you both. ACAS have been very helpful in the past when I've had employment issues.

Read the thread. 50% of the problem is the advice from acas.

stephbond89

yes everyone is saying they dont knwo waht they're on about! But yes I have phoned them they couldnt give me much info as its a job specific question!!

The Possible Side affects are:

1-10% of people
increased cholesterol
difficulty sleeping or drowsiness
blurred vision
high blood pressure
yawning
change in appetite
difficulty urinating
unusual weakness and headache
unusual and frequent bruising

1-10 people in 1000
low sodium level
muscle spasm
ringing in ears
low blood pressure
grinding teeth
abnormal liver funtion tests
inflammation of the skin
menstrual disturbance
increased sensitivity of your skin to sunlight

1-10 people in 10,000 people
prolonged bleeding
water retention
confusion, restlessness, sweating, shaking, hallucinations
high temp with confusion
black tarry stool
itchiness and yellow skin

1-10 in 100,000 people
reduction of blood platelets
severe reduction of white blood cells
muscle stiffness
inscreased eye pressure
breathing difficulty, chest pain
skin lesions
kidney problems
abnormal brest milk production

On driving and using heavy machines:
Medication may impair mental concentration and alertness, especially during initial period of treatment. Therefore, you should be careful when driving or operating machinary. Subsequently, your doctyor will evaluate your ability to drive or use machines by into account the severity of your condition, response to treatment and undesirable effects.

stephbond89

Anyway I think we have completely come off the point here: My original question was about my husbands misconduct case.

Sleeping on the job we established is gross misconduct. BUT what about the way its been dealt with? he was found to be asleep on the Monday night at 2.30am, he was left to continue the shift, and then on Tuesday morning at about 8.30am, he was TEXT by his boss and told he had been deallocated from all duties pending an investigation and disciplinary hearing.

He phoned his boss and asked when it would be, he was told it would be the following Tuesday, 8 days later, when my husband asked why, he said he was "busy" until then. Tuesday comes around, and the meeting is ajourned halfway through and his boss tells him he will call him later that day or the next day (today).

No call yesterday, my husband phones at around 4pm 5 hours after his meeting- and was told he was "waiting on some stuff" and huis boss woudl get back to him. Today we phoned at 10am, no answer, midday...no answer. my husband phoned the office and got the secrertary, and could HEAR his boss in the3 background (meaning his boss was screeing his calls), his boss fobbed him off and said he would phone back. We are STILL waiting to hear from it, and it really feels now as though his boss simply doesn't have the backbone to fire him himself and is waiting for someone else to come into the office to do it for him.

What we want to know though NOW, is that my husband was left in work after he was found to be sleeping for 6 hours, surely if this act is "gross misconduct" where his company is concerned, he should have been sent straight home, for example if he had been caught drunk or on drugs on site, or stealing he would be sent directly home pending an investigation, not left on for the rest of his shift. So it seems ot me they are been contradictory by suspending him yet allowing him to stay on site for the remaining 6 hours of his shift. Its as though "oh yes your fit to work the rest of your shift, but not the rest of them". Suirely if they acted in that way, then this act is ONLY misconduct and not GROSS midconduct, meaninfg that he would have to go through the disciplinary process of warning, written warning, final written warning before he could be dismissed??

Im not interested in the breaks or rest period, it seems they ahve gotten out of that one, but I WILL consult an employment lawyer regarding it to get 100% facts.

lemonjelly

If you have legal cover on car or buildings or contents insurance, they should provide a solicitor for you.

Only an employment tribunal can decide whether or not an act constitutes gross misconduct. Some here have expressed opinions. However, your husband states mitigating circumstances.

Therefore,
can the employer show that the act does constitute gross misconduct? Subsequent to that, did the employer act reasonably in following the disciplinary procedure?

Can I also suggest, that it is your husband, not you who speaks with a solicitor. It is possible there are small but relevant details/history etc that he would be aware of that you may not be?

KiKi

Uncertain wrote: »

Yes it is actually!

It is called redundancy!

Yes, I'm fully aware of the reasons for unfair dismissal and that redundancy is one of them.

But fiddlestick's post said "An employer is perfectly entitled to tell an employee that their services are no longer required." If their services are no longer required due to a job disappearing (redundancy), fair enough.

But there are many other reasons their services might not be required, like the employer just not liking the person, and that's not a fair reason for dismissal. We obviously just interpreted fiddlestick's meaning of "services not required" differently.

Anyway, that is not the issue here and I totally agree with SarEl a few posts above. The standard of advice in this thread is terrible and not helping the poster one little bit.

It wasn't the issue, but an earlier post said his employer could terminate his contract at any time for no reason at all - which was 'terrible' advice and I felt I should point that out, as did others.

Hope the OP gets it sorted.

KiKi

iamana1ias

lemonjelly wrote: »

If you have legal cover on car or buildings or contents insurance, they should provide a solicitor for you.

Car insurance legal cover does not cover employment law issues! :rotfl:

iamana1ias

OP, let's just simplify this shall we? You're running along a track that's likely to take you nowhere.

In your first post:

stephbond89 wrote:

I put a post up about my husband a few days ago. He fell asleep in work for 10 minutes and was suspended unpaid pending a disciplinary. Today was the disciplinary and I was some help:

He went in with a written statement outlining the reasons he fell asleep which were a mix of having an 7 week old baby at home who was sick that weekend, working very long hours (without the legal 11 hours between the shifts), and also his medication has begun to make him drowsy (he declared his medication to his employers when he started the job, he is on anti depressants).

You gave his meds as the last reason he may have fallen asleep. Given he started taking them in 2007 and has not had this reaction before, it's extremely unlikely that was the cause of his drowsyness.

stephbond89 wrote:

we have also just had a new baby, his doctor did actually say that it is his pills which have started to cause the drowsiness due to the other things happening in his life, a new baby, long working hours etc.

Are you sure that's what the doctor said? I've a hunch the new baby is more likely to be the cause of the tiredness - nothing else has changed. He's taken the meds since 2007 and worked long night shifts since 2008, apparently without any problems. Now you have a baby, he gets (understandably) tired and all of a sudden it's the meds/long hours?

stephbond89 wrote:

he is a security guard so sleepin on the job is classed as gross misconduct (written in his contract) as he works alone and is meant to be securing the site

stephbond89 wrote:

One thing ive completly forgotten there claiming it's gross misconduct yep not debating that fact but they caught him at 2:30 in morn they left him on site till 8am on his own again surly if its that bad then he should of been sent home if he was that unfit to work then it should of been straight home now not leave you on site for 6 hours....

But he works alone. Do you think they'd leave the site unsecured when they could keep your husband there till the end of his shift?

stephbond89 wrote:

But i do think that the comment about his medication is unfair, as I said, the drowsiness was never a problem before that weekend.

:think: So your new baby was ill, and you were awake all weekend, but that couldn't have caused your husband's drowsiness? It had to be the meds?

stephbond89 wrote:

His medication was never a problem before, but anti depressants can change as time goes on as the body gets more used to them etc.

So what other side effects has he suddenly started suffering?

stephbond89 wrote:

And the fact he was already exhausted after 6 weeks off work following me giving birth and prior to me giving birth when I was very ill- probably had something to do with it. He is meant to have a health review each month with his employers which is meant to be reviewed by a medical proffessional which he never had after coming back from such a long break, he didnt see a supervisor for 3 weeks after going back to working after having such a long stint off from working such long hours, to make sure he was ok in his work.

Was he off on leave or off sick?? Why do you think it's his employers' responsibility to ensure he is fit for work? Why did he need 6 weeks off? I can understand why his falling asleep would be the last straw for his employer - he doesn't exactly sound like a model employee.

stephbond89 wrote:

3) Again on the drowsiness of the medication, the medication actually says that your doctor will eamine you and will tell you whether or not you are prone to drowsiness on the drugs and whether or not you can drive, operate machinary...if your doctor does NOT tell you this then you have no reason to believe they are going to affect you.

Erm, no it doesn't:

stephbond89 wrote:

The Possible Side affects are:

1-10% of people
increased cholesterol
difficulty sleeping or drowsiness
blurred vision
high blood pressure
yawning.......

......On driving and using heavy machines:
Medication may impair mental concentration and alertness, especially during initial period of treatment. Therefore, you should be careful when driving or operating machinary. Subsequently, your doctyor will evaluate your ability to drive or use machines by into account the severity of your condition, response to treatment and undesirable effects.

stephbond89 wrote:

I certainly wouldnt know to tell an employer all the side affrects which could potentialloy happen in 1% of cases!!

stephbond89 wrote:

He would never have been expected to go into the ins and outs of the side affects which occur in 1 in every 1000 people. His medication doesnt make EVERY person drowsy who take it, but it IS a rare side affect, but ALSO so is a heart condition resulting in the medication, high blood pressure etc. All of which are 1 in 1000 cases. Just as there are side affects with ALL medication no matter what it is, there are always side affects which happen in SOME cases. If drowsiness was something which came with the drug (as it is with some) then YES it was something he should have mentioned, but seeing as it had not affected him for 12 months, he had NO reason to believe it ever would, his doctor had never made him aware of it either. The drowsiness ONLY kicked in that weekend,

1-10% actually (between 10 and 100 people per 1000, not 1 per 1000), which is pretty significant.

stephbond89 wrote:

Surely they cannot fire him for taking the exact same medication he has always taken which was declared simply because they have started to have3 adverse affects on him (which he has now seen a doctor about and is changing his medication to somehting which wont make him drowsy).

HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS THE MEDS MAKING HIM DROWSY???

Most new parents would be knackered, especially if their baby was poorly. I bet some have even fallen asleep at work, without being on meds!

stephbond89 wrote:

And as far as I am concenred, it DOES mitigate falling asleep in work, mitigating circumstances are anything which lead to the incident occuring. They can be anything. A new baby is a mitigating circumstance. The fact she was ill the weekend in question and had been awake all night all weekend is a mitigating circumstance.

stephbond89 wrote:

The fact that my husbands medication had clearly began to stop working is a mitigating circumstance.

How has it stopped working? Is it not controlling his depression any more?

stephbond89 wrote:

Him been so overtired from the work he was doing so soon after having such an extensive leave is a mitigating circumstance.

So anyone who takes leave should be eased back into work gently? Presumably he chose to take the leave to be with you and the baby. Even if he worked days he'd have been tired after returning to work, as are most if not all new dads. Reality check needed!

stephbond89 wrote:

Simply being overtired is a mitigating circumstance. So yes there ARE mitigating circumstances!

So if he'd been awake all weekend at a poker tournament, and therefore shattered when he went back to work, you think the employer should have been okay with that?


You have given no information that indicates his meds have stopped working or that he's now reacting to them.

There's not a specialist on the planet (let alone a GP) that could prove beyond reasonable doubt that the meds and the meds alone caused him to fall asleep.

The ONLY thing that's changed in almost 3 years is your baby. Babies make parents tired. Trying to hide behind the meds/illness is, I fear, a waste of time.

prosaver

so what was his hours on the week he feel a sleep at work, soory if that sounds funny :0

prosaver

this is getting sound like the argument sketch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y