Disciplinary Help!!!

prosaver

Originally Posted by steve1980
As he works for a security company he would have had to tick a box saying that he is willing to work over X amount of hours.
wrong ..
it the employers responsibility.. :beer: sorry its the law.
I am hnc qualified in health and safety
A blind man could tick a box saying he could work on scaffolding .. Under health and safety law ...the employer should not let him work (duty of care).
everyone should remember this when you go to work.
Under health and safety law ...the employer should not let him work (duty of care).
everyone all together now.....
'Under health and safety law ...the employer should not let him work (duty of care).'

I am hnc qualified in health and safety......................... it was part of my course :beer:

stephbond89

Seems a lot has been said since I was last online...
right:
1) Yes he is on a zero hour contract, I guess this is how they get around the suspension pay not good for us, but thank you for clearing that up.
2) People keep coming back to the BREAKS and someone again posted that security workers arent entitled to breaks, these are NOT rest periods, these are breaks during the working day. There are no opt out clauses for having 11 hours rest period between shifts according to ACAS- now MrRedundant may say that this is just a worker in a call centre...but they ARE qualified at the end of the day and know what they're talking about. I was pretty certain you had to have 11 hours between shifts especially where night shifts are concerned due to the health implications of working nights already.
3) Again on the drowsiness of the medication, the medication actually says that your doctor will eamine you and will tell you whether or not you are prone to drowsiness on the drugs and whether or not you can drive, operate machinary...if your doctor does NOT tell you this then you have no reason to believe they are going to affect you. I could give you the quote from the pack buti i dont have it with me. It states drowsiness as happens in 1% of cases. There is a list of about 1000 symptoms which CAN occur in 1% of cases. i am failing to see how my husband could have seen that this woiuld happen. i take Omeprazol whihc is for gastric reflux- i dont know every single side affect of the drug, and I certainly wouldnt know to tell an employer all the side affrects which could potentialloy happen in 1% of cases!!

Savvy_Sue

stephbond89 wrote: »

2) People keep coming back to the BREAKS and someone again posted that security workers arent entitled to breaks, these are NOT rest periods, these are breaks during the working day. There are no opt out clauses for having 11 hours rest period between shifts according to ACAS- now MrRedundant may say that this is just a worker in a call centre...but they ARE qualified at the end of the day and know what they're talking about. I was pretty certain you had to have 11 hours between shifts especially where night shifts are concerned due to the health implications of working nights already.

ACAS do get it wrong though, and MrR is not the only poster who shares this opinion.

why believe ACAS are right when you have had links to the actual govt guidance which says workers in his field are NOT covered by the rest time legislation?

zzzLazyDaisy

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

ACAS do get it wrong though, and MrR is not the only poster who shares this opinion.

why believe ACAS are right when you have had links to the actual govt guidance which says workers in his field are NOT covered by the rest time legislation?

Because she has a young baby and a husband who is on the verge of losing his job.... and she'll believe the people who are giving her the advice she wants to hear

OP, ACAS call centres advisers are only trained in basic law. They are not qualified employment lawyers, and can't be expected to know everything there is to know about the law - it is not surprising they have missed this exception to the normal rules. If you are going to rely on ACAS advice, I suggest that you ask to speak to a case worker, and ask him/her to check out this specific point.

Uncertain

OP......

This forum can be excellent but sometimes, like this thread sadly, there can be a lot of rubbish written by people with little real knowledge. Too often they think that their own personal experience in a different situation somehow defines the law.

Can I strongly suggest you pay close attention to what LazyDaisy and SarEl have written (both highly experienced PROFESSIONALS). In particular beware of the advice given by the ACAS helpline. As stated, this is a glorified call centre staffed by people with limited training. At higher levels the ACAS service can be excellent but the helpline cannot be definitive on complex matters.

stephbond89

• jobs where you can choose freely how long you will work (such as a managing executive)
• the armed forces, emergency services and police are excluded in some circumstances
• domestic servants in private houses

wheres security guard fit into them exemptions he cant choose freely how long he will work he gets his shifts set for him he cant choose to go home when he wants.
He isnt in the army, emergency workers and police and he most certainly isnt a domestic servent apart from serving my needs.

So that clears that one up

One thing ive completly forgotten there claiming it's gross misconduct yep not debating that fact but they caught him at 2:30 in morn they left him on site till 8am on his own again surly if its that bad then he should of been sent home if he was that unfit to work then it should of been straight home now not leave you on site for 6 hours....
If it was alcohol or drugs related or stealing youd be sent straight home no questions bang straight out. but they left him in work when he clearly stated hes exhausted. wouldnt this be classed as basic neglagence or an unwinable gross misconduct class so all the odds are stacked in there favour out of there 18 things they class as gross misconduct you should be sent home for but obvistly theyve decided in this case they couldnt be bothered

Savvy_Sue

stephbond89 wrote: »

• jobs where you can choose freely how long you will work (such as a managing executive)
• the armed forces, emergency services and police are excluded in some circumstances
• domestic servants in private houses

wheres security guard fit into them exemptions he cant choose freely how long he will work he gets his shifts set for him he cant choose to go home when he wants.
He isnt in the army, emergency workers and police and he most certainly isnt a domestic servent apart from serving my needs.

So that clears that one up

well, it might have done had you kept reading ... just below what you quoted:

paddedjohn wrote: »

[/LIST]The rights to breaks apply differently to you if:

• you have to travel a long distance from your home to get to work
• you constantly work in different places making it difficult to work to a set pattern
  
• you are doing security or surveillance-based work
• you are working in an industry with busy peak periods, like agriculture, retail or tourism
• there is an emergency or risk of an accident
• the job needs round-the-clock staffing (such as hospital work)
• you are employed in the rail industry and you work on board trains or your activities are irregular or linked to seeing that trains run on time

In these cases, instead of getting normal breaks, you are entitled to 'compensatory rest'. This is rest taken later, ideally during the same or following working day. The principle is that everyone gets a minimum 90 hours rest a week on average. This is the total of your entitlement to daily and weekly rest periods, although some rest may come slightly later than normal.

I'm sorry, I think it's wrong, I think he SHOULD get an 11 hour break between shifts, but I do not think his co. is breaking the law by not giving one.

prosaver

steph this might help;
Rest breaks - a break during your working day


As an adult worker (over 18), you will normally have the right to a 20 minute rest break if you are expected to work more than six hours at a stretch.
A lunch or coffee break can count as your rest break. Additional breaks might be given by your contract of employment. There is no statutory right to 'smoking breaks'.
The requirements are:

• the break must be in one block
• it cannot be taken off one end of the working day - it must be somewhere in the middle
• you are allowed to spend it away from the place on your employer's premises where you work
• your employer can say when the break must be taken, as long as it meets these conditions

Daily rest - a break between working days


If you are an adult worker you have the right to a break of at least 11 hours between working days. This means as an adult worker, if you finish work at 8.00 pm on Monday you should not start work until 7.00 am on Tuesday.
di he ???

Weekly rest - the 'weekend'

If you are an adult worker you have the right to either:

• an uninterrupted 24 hours clear of work each week
• an uninterrupted 48 hours clear each fortnight

Exceptions to the regulations

Your working week is not covered by the Working Time Regulations if you work in the following areas:

• jobs where you can choose freely how long you will work (such as a managing executive)
• the armed forces, emergency services and police are excluded in some circumstances
• domestic servants in private houses

The rights to breaks apply differently to you if:

• you have to travel a long distance from your home to get to work
• you constantly work in different places making it difficult to work to a set pattern
• you are doing security or surveillance-based work
• you are working in an industry with busy peak periods, like agriculture, retail or tourism
• there is an emergency or risk of an accident
• the job needs round-the-clock staffing (such as hospital work)
• you are employed in the rail industry and you work on board trains or your activities are irregular or linked to seeing that trains run on time

In these cases, instead of getting normal breaks, you are entitled to 'compensatory rest'. This is rest taken later, ideally during the same or following working day. The principle is that everyone gets a minimum 90 hours rest a week on average. This is the total of your entitlement to daily and weekly rest periods, although some rest may come slightly later than normal.
ref:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029451

stephbond89

Once again people are coming back to the BREAKS not the rest period.

On the GOVERNMENT website it says the ONLY people exempt from the 11 hours between shifts are:

People who choose their own working hours (eg managing directors)
Emergency Services
Domestic Servants

He is NONE of these. There may not be a line saying "SECURITY GUARDS ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM THE 11 HOURS REST PERIOD" but the important thing is there is NOTHING saying that they ARE exempt either. ALL they are exempt from are breaks DURING shifts (whereas most employees must have a break every 4-6 hours or whatever it is now, Security work, along with many other jobs do not as it cannot be accomodated in the type of work). This I KNEW and is not at all been disputed. Its the rest period between shifts which I am asking about, and as I have said, there is NOTHING saying that security is exempt from that. Oh and also my husband has phoned the direct gov helpline on employment...and they also said the same as Acas, that there is NO exemtion other than those outlined above.

Errata

I could give you the quote from the pack buti i dont have it with me. It states drowsiness as happens in 1% of cases. There is a list of about 1000 symptoms which CAN occur in 1% of cases.

Are you sure this is correct? I'm fairly familiar with AD's and their side effects and not aware of one that has about 1000 symptoms - I think you mean side effects. If you can post which one it is I can look it up for you.