Washing machine leaked do I have to pay for damage?

peterbaker

Ooo-er ... getting a bit Donoghue Stevensonesque now I think!
In the words of some wise man: "You must take reasonable care to avoid acts or omissions which you can reasonably foresee would be likely to injure your neighbour."

If someone has not taken reasonable care then someone's breach of huckster's number 2 is clear.

I wonder who fitted the washing machine cold water feed pipe, who disturbed it, who didn't check it?

In practice, the "water damage" insurers who might most likely be the ones approached to pay for this type of damage in bocks of flats are in the first instance (forget the extent and excess for the moment) likely to be the ones favoured by some nefarious absent freeholder who takes a hefty commission on all the premiums, and possibly 10% on all the claims too. Due to the more usual lack of community in the UK, the unregulated managing agent for the block will most often be the first point of contact by the neighbour downstairs: "Please could someone come and fix my ceiling - I think they have a leak upstairs". I think this type of call is commonplace. The managing agent would first try to contact the likes of the OP, then view the damage, and then make a decision whether to involve the freeholder's insurer or to deal with it as part of the general block repairs and maintenance (service charges) in order to avoid the possible adverse affects on insurance renewal premiums.

Whether that managing agent / freeholder's insurer might then follow up with an attempted recovery from the occupier (e.g. the OP) is something I'd be interested to know. My guess is that it doesn't happen anywhere near as often as it should due to general laziness (greed for profit type) in the chain.

I feel sure this kind of stuff occurs daily, but it depends who is pushing as to how it is resolved.

Overall I think the "You must take reasonable care to avoid acts or omissions which you can reasonably foresee would be likely to injure your neighbour." is most telling. It does not offer a way to avoid recompense, just a reminder of reasonableness.

huckster

Peter, I think you have started to answer your own arguments on this.

It is not that it is impossible to take forward legally, it is whether you have the proof required of the breach in duty of care and can justify spending time/money, when it is only the excess involved.

Someone I know had a situation where over a year their neighbours boiler leaked water down to their flat below on several occasions. They took legal advice and even though there was evidence of a breach, they were advised not to pursue this. The breach would have been not to sort out the boiler problem, after the first time the fault had occured. I think the solicitors advice was that the neighbour had limited financial means to settle any claim against them and that they might be waiting years to obtain the costs back. The neighbour concerned was disabled and on benefits. So it really depends on the circumstances, as to whether it is worth it or not. I would not fancy my chances, unless I had reasonable chances of being able to prove negligence.

peterbaker

Well I would prefer to answer it this way:

Is it reasonable for the neighbour downstairs to ask the OP for £100 to redecorate their ceiling ? Yes.

Is it reasonable for the OP to refuse in this case ? No.

Do we live in an ideal world of reasonableness? No we do not and we seem to have moved into a particularly unneighbourly period in the last generation or two in the UK.

Who usually pays to uphold reasonableness? Reasonable people.

Who costs reasonable people money on a regular basis? Unreasonable people.

Nice.

huckster

I think you have summed up the world we are live in.

I have learnt from experience that it is up to each person to stand up for themselves. Being nice all of the time, can lead to you being taken advantage of.

You will see another thread on here about a non fault car accident where the OP was Insured with Aviva. The accident was caused by the 3rd party also Insured with Aviva. The circumstances of the accident were such that it could not be put down as as 50/50. Aviva acting for the 3rd party, refused to refund the excess to the OP. The OP is now having to consider taking this up legally against the 3rd party by issuing a letter before action, following by a MCOL if necessary.

The world has moved on, not for the better unfortunately and I can only see it getting worse. We will become like the US, where everyone appears to be suing each other. Tell your kids to study law, as there will always be work.

Sunnyday2100

Thanks for all the responses - didn't realise it would generate so much discussion! The washing machine itself is fairly new and was put in about a year ago, pipes all seem fine but I guess over a period of months the connection could have loosened a bit. Never had such a problem before, but anyway.... As mentioned I am selling up and have already moved out. I guess the nice thing to do would be to pay for the ceiling to be re-painted, but I think he may be having me over by asking £100 as this is to cover the cost of someone else doing a job that he could do himself for the cost of a small tin of paint. I think I'll offer him £50 as a goodwill gesture on the understanding that this is the end of the matter.

Quentin

peterbaker wrote: »

I spent years in general insurance and your views clearly do not chime well with mine.

As posted your views seem to be your moral view on the matter.

Your years in general insurance aren't relevant to the legal situation we are discussing here on the OP's question. (ie. No liability unless negligence is proven.)

Barneysmom

Can he physically do it himself? I think you should just pay the £100 and make sure he signs a receipt.

richardvc

Be decent, pay the £100 and don't quibble.

Your neighbour didn't cause the problem but has been left holding the proverbial baby.

Quentin

Sunnyday2100 wrote: »

I think I'll offer him £50 as a goodwill gesture on the understanding that this is the end of the matter.

Were you to do this you could end up with it returning to bite you.

Any subsequent issue that turned up (eg electrics showing water damage/ rot in ceiling etc) could be said to be connected to the incident, and your £50 payment for decorations could be seen as you admitting liability for causing the water damage in the first place.

peterbaker

Sunnyday2100, I'm glad you've mellowed a bit ... I sympathise if you are a bit short, but there's only one reason for the leak, eh? I have to tell you that I remember that even from my general insurance training days decades ago that £100 towards a water damaged ceiling claim would not go very far at all ... I know the paint isn't very much but remember that strictly speaking the plaster might need a bit of attention too ... sounds like the leak may have occurred over a period of time. If the plaster is at all damaged then you are instantly up into multiples of that £100.

£100 is hard enough to earn thesedays I know, but it really goes fast on tradesmen. My parents had a leaky cold water storage tank recently. Unfortunately they forgot to mention it to me cos ballcocks is my speciality since I took one leaky one apart recently and surprisingly made it like new again at zero cost . Anyway, thinking they were clever my folks called Homeserve (yoiks yes they get everywhere like cockroaches) to see if they could claim on their policy bought I know not when but probably in one of those flippin' telephone calls you get when least expecting it. Typically Homeserve immediately said "not covered, but we would have covered a leaky tap Sir, but not the cost of a tap washer" ... ?? .... and then they went on "but we can appoint a plumber for you", and what about letting us charge you another £35 a year to cover it next time?" No just the plumber please. Sure enough it got fixed on time, but ten quid maximum was the material cost of the new ballcock and valve, ten minutes maximum is what they spent on site to fit it (took two peeps!),and ninety quid, bish bosh is what my old Dad shelled out :mad:

Anyway, £50 or £100, I am sure you'll make it right now with your old neighbour. I reckon you'll need to employ considerable charm with the hard luck story to settle at £50 :A

Anyway, Good luck in your new place.