Is my house an HMO?

mystic_trev

This seems to be the problem - definition of a HMO.

Your Council are quite right - there are too many unlicensed ,death trap, HMO's to keep them busy for a considerable amount of time!
I'd thought the definition of a HMO was shared accomodation of more than four people over three floors, but it looks like I'm wrong!

EdInvestor

Different councils are interpreting the HMO rules in different ways as they are entitled to do under the new rules.

Veru wise to check though as the fines for not registering if you're required to are very high.

Councils often publishe their HMO rules on their websites.

seven-day-weekend

EdInvestor wrote:

Councils often publishe their HMO rules on their websites.

I did look at them, but they did not seem to fit the set-up in my house.

EdInvestor

Hi 7DW

A house is not an HMO if it is lived in by the owner occupier, his/her family and up to two lodgers.

Did you ask about this aspect?I have heard this mentioned before in the case of family which has bought a flat for use of student child who is resident with a couple of other student lodgers.

Can anyone confirm this is excluded from HMO arrangments? Does the child count as the owner occupier, or does it depend on whose name is on the deeds?

Debt_Free_Chick

EdInvestor wrote:

Hi 7DW



Did you ask about this aspect?I have heard this mentioned before in the case of family which has bought a flat for use of student child who is resident with a couple of other student lodgers.

Can anyone confirm this is excluded from HMO arrangments? Does the child count as the owner occupier, or does it depend on whose name is on the deeds?

See my post (#8), which includes a link to the relevant section of the Housing Act.

My view is that the son is not the owner occupier. But even if he were, there are still at least two households in the property, so it's get caught as an HMO. However, I don't think it's one that falls under mandatory licensing .... just the Council's requirements for provision of "basic amenities" (loo, washing and cooking facilities).

Regards

seven-day-weekend

EdInvestor wrote:

Hi 7DW



Did you ask about this aspect?I have heard this mentioned before in the case of family which has bought a flat for use of student child who is resident with a couple of other student lodgers.

Can anyone confirm this is excluded from HMO arrangments? Does the child count as the owner occupier, or does it depend on whose name is on the deeds?

I did mention that my son lived there, and said the three of them shared the whole house, the phrase I used was 'like a family would'. From what the Council said, the main criterion for chasing things up if there were only two or three people seemed to be whether the people who shared the house had a good relationship and genuinely 'shared' - i./e. watched TV together, shopped together etc and just didn't lock themselves in their rooms and never saw each other. It seems to me as though they will not chase up genuine housemates although the property might officially be a HMO.

TJ27

DFC has alluded to the fact that just because the house is an HMO, it doesn't mean that it is licensable. And the large fines apply to people who do not licence a licensable HMO. (Up to £20k) And just to confuse things, there are three classes of licensable HMO, mandatory is one and I think selective and discretionary are the other two.

SDW, your house certainly does not fall into the category of Mandatory licensable. So I really wouldn't worry about getting a big fine. And it's the mandatory ones that councils are concerned about at the moment.

However, your idea of what constitutes an HMO (above) seems to be the old definition. DFC is quite right that her post #8 should give you a better idea of the new definition.

In my opinion, and like I say I'm one of the guys who's enforcing the regs, this house is an HMO but it is not licensable.

I'm really not sure how this affects the council tax issue though. To use my typical council reply, "It's not my department I'm afraid."

seven-day-weekend

Thank you TJ27 . In my post above I am only giving the gist of what the lady I spoke to said. She didn't give me a definition of an HMO, but said that they did not have the resources or finances to shase up cases such as mine where the people were house-sharers, they were after the ones who were five or more to a house with cooking facilities in the rooms, where the tenants locked themselves in their own rooms and didn't know each other. She said ours all knew how to get out in case of a fire, which in the above scenario they may not necessarily. She said in an ideal world all HMOs of whatever description would have the regs enforced, but it was not an ideal world.

AS DFC says, they have the amenities of washing, cooking and sanitary facilities that are all that is required in an unlicensed HMO. They also have a Gas safety certificate, smoke alarms and other fire safety equipment.

EdInvestor

4) For the purposes of subsection (2) a flat is "owner-occupied" if it is occupied-

(a) by a person who has a lease of the flat which has been granted for a term of more than 21 years,
(b) by a person who has the freehold estate in the converted block of flats, or
(c) by a member of the household of a person within paragraph (a) or (b).

This seems to suggest that the student child of an owner occupier is treated as an owner occupier.

So how does it work if s/he takes in a lodger ( or two) under the Rent a Room scheme.Does the place become an HMO, if so at what point?

seven-day-weekend

EdInvestor wrote:

This seems to suggest that the student child of an owner occupier is treated as an owner occupier.

So how does it work if s/he takes in a lodger ( or two) under the Rent a Room scheme.Does the place become an HMO, if so at what point?

Thank you Edinvestor. My son is not a student, but he does fall into category C, although it is a house, not a flat.

The Council seem to be saying that although it is a HMO, they are not going to bother chasing it up.

Suits me.