Is my house an HMO?

seven-day-weekend

My house in the UK is lived in by my son and two lodgers. The Council have decided that they are 'jointly and severally' liable for the Council Tax and have sent them each a bill. They have allowed some Council Tax Benefit (presumably because my son is unemployed).

Does this mean that they are not classing it as an HMO and if so is it because our son lives in the family home and doesn't pay rent, therefore they are not classing him as a tenant?

I don't want to ring them unless absolutely necessary because I don't want to rattle their cage! They do have my contact details, and in fact sent me an e-mail a few months ago asking for information, when my son informed them of his change in circumstances regarding his CTB. So they can contact me if they wish.

Any information will be gratefully received!

TJ27

A house is not an HMO if it is lived in by the owner occupier, his/her family and up to two lodgers.

Do you live in the house too? If so then it's not an HMO.

seven-day-weekend

No, we live in Spain, our son lives in the house, but it's not a BTL, it's the family home. (We moved out instead of him!). He pays no rent.

He lives in the house with two lodgers.

The Council Tax people know the situation.

TJ27

Hmm. Then it's not owner occupied I'm afraid. So I think it probably is indeed an HMO.

real1314

Your son is the occupier, the other 2 are his lodgers IMHO.

Why not ring the council to ask a "general question" - I did recently about a scenario where a property is rented to a company for it's employees use. My local council said that even if the employer put 3 people in the property, they would class it as a shared house, not a HMO. They didn't ask for my details / property address etc, just gave a general answer.

TJ27

They are all occupiers aren't they? The key words are "owner occupier" when it comes to this sort of thing. And technically they probably aren't his lodgers, they are SDW's lodgers. Much might depend on who receives what's called the "rack rent".

Most shared houses are now HMOs too but it does depend on how many occupants there are. So it is indeed a good idea to phone the council and ask a general question. But I think the exemption only applies to two unrelated peopleliving together, not three. I could be wrong, as some bits of the legislation are slightly different here in Wales.

seven-day-weekend

Hi there, thanks for your replies.

I receive the rent and I use it to pay some of the bills with, my son pays the rest of the bills.

I thought I read somewhere that if it was classed as a HMO, the landlord was responsible for the CT. They have said that my son and the lodgers are 'jointly and severally' responsible for the CT. They told me this on the telephone in September when I rang up about the bill (all three of them had been sent a bill and I was in the UK at the time). They have allowed some CT Benefit (presumably because my son is unemployed).

The only thing they have asked me was a few months ago, and they sent me an e-mail wanteing to know the lodgers' names and when they moved in. I supplied this information and asked them why they wanted to know it. They said they were deciding whether the house was a HMO or not and that if they decided it was, I would be responsible for the CT. Since then they have sent the bill to my son and the lodgers and told me what I have mentioned above. I personally have heard nothing further.

I think I will ask my husband to make a general phone call.

Thanks again.

Debt_Free_Chick

seven-day-weekend wrote:

I thought I read somewhere that if it was classed as a HMO, the landlord was responsible for the CT.

To be honest, the Council will try to get anyone they consider as being only vaguely responsible to pay the CT. I'm sure that if your son & the lodgers weren't paying, they'd deem an HMO for the purpose of getting you to pay the CT. That, alone, doesn't make it an HMO under the legislation, though.

I think the grey area is the position of your son. Clearly he is not the owner. But he is not a lodger or a tenant either.

My interpretation of Section 254 of the Housing Act 2004 is that this is an HMO, however.

The property meets the standard test in Section 254 as:-

(a) It is a unit of accommodation not consisting of self contained flats.

(b) It is occupied by people who do not form a single household. To be a single household ALL the occupiers would have to be part of the same family (see section 258). The fact that one of them - your son - is part of the owner's family is irrelevant, as section 258 is clear that its all the occupiers that have to be part of the same family.

(c) The property is the occupiers' only or main residence.

(d) The property is only used for their accommodation

(e) At least one of them pays rent (they don't all have to pay rent)

(f) Two or more of the households occupying the property share basic amenities. I calculate that there are three households in the property - each person is a household as they are not related to other, so none of them can "couple up" with another to be treated as a single household. I assume that they share the kitchen and probably the bathroom too. Even if your son were treated as the owner, I think it would still be an HMO as there will still be two other households - each of the lodgers being a household.

You are stuck between a rock and a hard place ... as you probably ought to register the property as an HMO and comply with all that entails.

I wouldn't put it past the Council to be collecting CT from the occupiers and then passing the file to the other department that deals with HMOs :eek:. They will be two different departments. Collection of CT is usually part of Finance, but HMOs will be part of the Housing Department.

HTH

Mrs_pbradley936

When my son was a student he lived in HMO and unless the rules have changed there have to be locks on every individual door with just shared kitchen and bathroom. Of course they were all students so none of them paid any council tax. Also in an HMO the fire people have to come and say if you need to do anything (ensure hallway clear at all times ie. no bikes). I don't think you have enough people to class it as HMO but I am not an expert.

seven-day-weekend

Thanks all for your helpful replies.

The only door that has a lock (apart from the ones to the outside) is the bathroom. FYI, the house has a cellar (used for storage), a sitting room, dining room, kitchen and bathroom on the ground floor, two bedrooms (used by lodgers) on the first floor and a loft bedroom (original, not a conversion) that my son uses. It has a workshop extension and a nice garden. There is a gas certificate in force. There are smoke alarms provided by the fire brigade on all floors, a fire extinguisher, a fire blanket and my son has a fire escape ladder for his room. The lodgers' windows open really wide for fire escapes and in fact one of them opens onto a flat roof.

Assuming the council DO decide it's an HMO (and they've not told me anything yet); one of the lodgers is leaving at Christmas.If I do not replace him, it will then not be an HMO. Is this correct? I can't believe that two people sharing would be classed as an HMO. The remaining lodger was a friend of my son's before he became a lodger. Surely two friends sharing would not be classed as an HMO?

Thias all started because my son was honest and reported his change in ciircumstances. I can understand in a way why some people don't bother. All we're trying to do is get him some help with the bills (as well as giving a home to two young men who would only otherwise be given a bedsit by the council - if they were lucky).

Sorry- rant over.

Thanks again all.

seven-day-weekend

I have rung the Council on a general enquiry.

Officially, my set-up is an HMO. It is not licensable. Unofficially, it's a grey area and because they are busy chasing death-trap properties of 5 or more people with cooking facilities in each room, they do not have time or resources to chase up set-ups like mine. Even on the licensable ones, the Council are not insisting on washbasins in all the rooms (quite right too - why shouldn't 3 or 4 people share a bathroom?). I'm glad to say my Council is interpreting the rules sensibly.

Offficially, two friends sharing is an HMO! How ridiculous!

So I don't think I'm going to worry about it any more.

Thanks all for your help and support.