:( BT's £127.99 one-off call out charge :|

f412hussain

Hi guys, this is my first post. I am really sorry its an essay but Im sure giving all the info will help.

I always use the site for advise and usually always find the advise that I need, today I joined the forum as the situation is a bit specific so I would really appreciate some advise. I also wanted everyone to know of my experience.

Im a student and moved into a rental property in september at the beginning of my academic year. The internet is must for me and therefore me and the housemates agreed that was priority and we arranged this first before anything else.

So i got in touch with bt and arranged the line to be changed into my name and paid the line rental off for the year as its the most cost effective method! We only found one line in the house, in the living room where we plugged the phone into. There was also a same sized box in the hallway but that had a blank plate on it so we couldn't plug anything into it. The representative on the phone confirmed the line was working after running a test.

We then proceeded to purchase broadband from o2 and they also ran a test on the line and confirmed we could expect 14mb from the working line. On the set up of the broadband we found it wouldnt work and ran though the trouble shoot and still had no luck. We rang o2 and one of the tests we did was simply plug a phone in an listen for a dial tone, there wasnt one now to our confusion! They told us to go to bt.

Bt were sorry to hear there was a fault now especially after us just paying for a years line rental. The representative on the phone ran a test and surprisingly a fault did show up this time. He said an engineer will need to be sent out. He explained that should the fault be due to us damaging anything or for example us not having a working handset then we would get charged for the call out. Being worried we did explain, we have just moved into the place, theres only one place to plug the line in and its not working and we havent done anything to it - the representative said we have nothing to worry about then, the engineer will come, fix it and all should be well.

The engineer came out and we showed him the line. He got his machine out plugged it in and said its not working, its probably due it being old (great technical knowledge he had). He then went into the hallway unscrewed the cover off the box with the blank plate on and plugged his machine in. He said this is the test line, its working upto here from outside so its must be a problem from here onwards. He said don't bother with that line in the living room, if its only internet your plugging in then just plug it in here. We plugged the phone into the port inside the box that now had the blank plate removed and it worked with a dial tone. The broadband also worked! He left it plugged in and the cover on top of the box.
We asked if that was the job done and he said confirmed thats it, we asked as you can see nothing is damaged and our phone works and we don't know the fault, are we going to be charged? He responded Ive not really done anything so no you guys wont be charged. We thanked him for coming and were glad to hear we weren't going to be charged and most importantly that we had internet! He was at your property for only 20 minutes-25 minutes.

I received the bill in october with just a minor charge for not using the phone which I learnt my lesson and now make sure i use the phone so I don't get charged.

Now in november I received my bill and just thought id check it even though it should be nothing, a few quid at most. I found a £127.99 charge on there.

I called Bt up and explained theres an error, ive been charged for the call out when I should not have been. The representative on the phone said sorry the charges stand as the engineer came out in september and it was an end user fault. I explained we haven't done anything. She recovered the engineers report which stated it was an end user fault and the charges were confirmed before leaving the property :O! They weren't!
I argued nothing of the sort- I explained all he did was plug his machine into the line (living room) and said it wasn't working due to it being old and then unscrewed the cover of the box (hallway) with the blank face plate and got us to use that. He confirmed no charges and left us to it. She then said so you have two lines in the house but only told us about one. She said the extension is not our responsibility, and continued stating the wiring and network from outside to the master is only their responsibility. Then I tried to ask about the master line as i didn't think we had one unless it is the same thing as a test line but the representative wouldn't let me get a word in at all, she kept saying that the charges stand. I just wanted to explain that I didn't know the box with a blank face was usable, until the engineer took the cover off, otherwise we would have used it ourselves and not called the engineer out- I would have thought BT wouldn't want us to touch boxes that have a blank face, if it was for use then it would have a hole in the blank face to plug a line in!

She wouldn't let me speak so I asked if I could speak to management, she said sure. She returned after a minute and said there is no use talking to management as they cant change anything, the charges stand. I explained I only want to explain everything and to which she seemed annoyed. She said its been fixed now as your using the extension so there isn't anything that changes the circumstances, the charges will have to stand. I frustratedly replied Im not using the line, the phone is plugged into the test line which is open and the wires are even hanging out, the "extension" isn't working and he didn't fix anything. She said she will put me through to faults as it shouldn't be like that (disregarding the fact that this is why we said there is only one line as this had a blank plate). I asked if i could still dispute the charge before she passed me over, to which she told me to write in and then put me through the faults dept.

The faults department simply repeated the same thing as last representative and then was baffled that the test line has a blank face on it, she got me confirm and identify the lines- the living room line was an older line as the screws are in the middle and the test line in the hallway has the lower half of the face come off but she confirmed it shouldn't be blank. She then said we will arrange another engineer to come out this saturday to put a plate on the front so we can plug the internet/phone into a safe port where no wires are hanging out unsafely. Before we finished the call I asked if I could raise a dispute about the charge anywhere and she said they don't have a complaints department or anything - Just email or write in but to be honest she thinks it wont get anything resolved as the charges should stand.

Sorry again for the long essay but this is what I had to go through today. I am more confused about everything than I was before, I feel frustrated that no one would listen to me properly and also keep suggesting the charges should stand- which is making me feel like ive done something wrong. I feel really disappointed with BT and have had a bad experience- I am not sure what to do- if I write to them I feel they are going to just reply saying the charges should stand.

Can anyone give me any advise?

Should I write to watchdog as I know they have reported about their one-off charges before? Also should I contact offcom to see what they think?

Ive included a picture of the line. And thank you for taking your time to read this

f412hussain

I cant actually post an image due to forum rules of a new member, so please visit

i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/f412hussain/IMG_0438.jpg

macman

That image shows a master socket with the faceplate removed. You are connected into the BT test socket. Anything beyond that point (wiring, extensions etc) is not BT's responsibility.
PS:You're more likely to get responses if you edit your post down considerably...

notbritishgas

What you have is an NTE5B as opposed to a 5A.
These are normally fitted where a telephone point is not required, eg if the line enters the property in the loft space or garage.
You have not got anything connected to the removable face plate, so the extension you have your phone and router connected to would never work.
Did you pay a connection charge when the line was put into your name, if so then the engineer visit should have rectified this.
I think the charge will stand as macman states the BT line up to the test socket was OK, it was your internal wiring, or lack of it, that was the problem.
There are 2 things you could do now:
Connect your extension to the face plate and leave you router where it is,or
Obtain an NTE5A and put that in place of the existing 5B and then put your phone/router in that.

spike7451

macman wrote: »

That image shows a master socket with the faceplate removed. You are connected into the BT test socket. Anything beyond that point (wiring, extensions etc) is not BT's responsibility.
PS:You're more likely to get responses if you edit your post down considerably...

Actually mac,not quite.the faceplate in that photo is a blanking plate &,looking at the difference in 'whiteness' between it & the master socket,it is newer than the master socket.
This is a standard faceplate rear;


I reckon this is what has been done.The OP stated BT said the was 2 lines (so BT said) into the property.Line 1 terminated in that NTE5 & the was an extension running off that to the socket in the other room (op,is that the same sort of socket but with a phone jack in the bottom half?)
1-The previous occupants wanted a second line installed thru to the other room (The socket in there is more likely a mini master) so the two cables were connected together behind the inner cover.

2-The previous occupants wanted the phone moved into the other room so BT wired in the pairs into the back of the faceplate (it does look to me like it has been wired up going by the state of the pairs) so BT fitted a blanking plate to stop the socket being used & it may be that the socket in the other room is faulty or the wiring to it is faulty,which is a common problem)

Unfortunatly the OP is in a gray area.

Do I have to pay for a fault repair?

We can repair many line faults at the exchange or on the network. Others require a visit by a BT engineer. There is no charge for these repairs. We will only charge you when one of our engineers visits your property and finds that the fault could have been fixed by you. For example, if your phone is broken or has been left unplugged.

https://www2.bt.com/static/i/microsite/help_and_tips/faults/faq/faults_faq2.html

BT could argue the fault was after the master socket & so not on their wiring but in my opinion as a NTL/VM Service Engineer,by fitting the blanking plate,the NTE5 no longer is a master socket but a junction box,the main socket being the extension in the other room

notbritishgas

www.presscomm.co.uk/pdf/DS024-1%20NTE5B.pdf
I think the above is what the OP has got.
It serves the same purpose as the NTE5A with a telephone socket. It is considered to be the Master socket, complete with the removable front plate and test socket for isolating private wiring and testing straight out to line.
It is normally used in situations as posted in my earlier post. I have one in my garage where the UG feed enters my property.

f412hussain

Thanks for your posts guys, Bt came over and put a cover on the testing/master socket so now it looks better and I have a proper place for the internet/phones to be plugged in.

Spike7451: that is exactly what I was explaining to the representative on the phone, how can I have even use the supposed "master socket" if it had a blank face on it or even known it was useable. I assumed it had a blank face as it wasn't ment for use.

I would be really grateful if anyone had any advise in what I should say to Bt in respects to disputing the charge as I feel I shouldn't have been charged for this call out (as the engineer did say as he left), the customer service was really poor (she wasnt letting me speak and got angry at me :O) and to top it off the engineer did a pants job (thankfully not unsafe im told) and had to pay another visit to rectify it?

Thanks again for taking the time to read my post!

spike7451

I posted a couple links in the thread below for 'skintlass' who got hit with the charges.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2855286

In my opinion,the BT engineer when he came out should have replaced the blanking plate with a socket face plate there & then.Before the BT engineer called out to you,your extension socket was the main phone point in the home & THEREFORE the termination point in the house,not the NTE5b in the hall.

If the inside of the socket in the living room looks like this;



Then it's LJU3/1 Mini Master & was used in older property's before the new NTE5.However if the yellow capacitor is missing then it's an extension socket.
Now if it's the former,then I'd argue that the master socket is not in the hall but the living room so therefore is part of the BT network & therefore their responsibility.

brewerdave

Useful info spike 7451,took the covers off my three household sockets as I don't have an immeditely identifiable master. One of them has the capacitor in place and it looks like your pic. I'll file this info away in case (God forbid!!) I have to call out BT.