2.8 million delaying parenthood due to housing costs

JonnyBravo

Orpheo wrote: »

...Because wealth is something that may impact upon your prospects, but it isn't the only or even the main thing that will impact upon your prospects,

There you go. Not so hard was it?
The only thing you need to realise is that your "may" is "will probably" by definition. But of course that is not talking about your, shakes or anyones individual child or circumstances. It is not a rule, it is a probability.

Orpheo

JonnyBravo wrote: »

There you go. Not so hard was it?

Nobody is throwing flowers at you yet, considering I have not at any point said that it wasn't so.

JonnyBravo wrote: »

The only thing you need to realise is that your "may" is "will probably" by definition. But of course that is not talking about your, shakes or anyones individual child or circumstances. It is not a rule, it is a probability.

No, by your definition, not mine, If I had meant "will probably" that is what I would have written. Interesting that you seem to have taken the word "may" and isolated it without reference to the rest of the sentence.

Orpheo

JonnyBravo wrote: »

Ignoring your temper tantrum (diddums) I presume you now concede that wealth is a factor affecting health?

Is it? Yes.

In all cases? No.

For all matters of health? Absolutely not.

Let us take something specific rather than misleading generalisations, take breast cancer, for instance; women on higher incomes get breast cancer more often than women on lower lower incomes.

Squalor can lead to some health problems. OK, the wealthy do not have to suffer squalor.

Lifestyle can lead to health problems, but clean leaving is cheap. It is cheaper to eat healthily, exercise is free and it is a simple choice to refuse to smoke or abuse drugs and alcohol. Education is more of a factor than wealth. Again it largely comes down to people's choices.

Poverty and squalor aside, there is no basis that wealthy is healthy when compared to the varied income levels of the populace.

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

lir don't mean to be rude but i'd put you and you DH under the "wealthy" category. i know it's all relative but i'm pretty much get the sense that compared to me and my background you have had the opportunities that wealth gives and if you were able to have children i'd say you two would be prime candidates for doing so and be able to give them choices and opportunities in life. obviously your OH has chosen to make more money than a musical career could have done but i sense you could have got by if he'd gone down the musical career route.

i've kind of gone for a sort of halfway house where i've entered a creative profession but have not been able to afford the great swathes of hobby filmmaking and similar endeavours that i see those from wealthier backgrounds indulging in (and yet still living in bigger houses and going on plenty of overseas travel). i'm not bitter about it just observing and realising that is how the cookie crumbles - i'm not a victim style person and i'm happy with life and myself but i really do think i could probably have achieved greater more unique things with a more wealthy start in life (and that includes all the networks and cultural insights the better off seem to have as well as monetary assets). my OH similar feels restrained by his background of an illiterate mother and lack of education. he's made what he can from his situation but i know he is intelligent and there is no doubt that his background has limited his choices in life.

I don't take offence, don't worry. And I'm not sure why anyone would at what you have said, whether an accurate conclusion or not! In fact I find the stuff about parenting very flattering and I thank you.

DH is from a well off ''international'' Jewish background.. His more successful self made mother died when he was a teen and he's had not a bean of financial help nor much practical moral support from his (inherited wealth) paternal family, in fact he is somewhat the ''lynch pin'' for them. I'm from a family half of which had ''back ground, but no money, and half of which had no background and little money plus my dad's education finished at 14/15. My parents made their own way..my mother who had the background left her own country (partly because of family abuse)and scraped her way up here, in a media job, a . No childcare, no benefits, then she got a good break, outside of ''media'' but it paid. There is no doubt her accent and social ability were key but these are not innate born skills, it helps to be brought up with them, but they are acquirable and she got the job herself, no contacts, just ''balls''. The things DH and I both benefit from are social ability and work ethic, on both sides. I think any income bracket can pass that on. My parents helped in a further way in that I was enabled to work at a far earlier age than most people, and the money I earned was mine for my future. I left that ''career'' before university where I studied something else entirely, but kept working for spending money. I started my own business while at university and paid my own way through.

This is all rather boring, and gets more complicated and interesting in a different telling of course, but the point is there is no way either of our families were going to pay for us to sit around childrearing or pursuing our career goals and not paying our way. What I did, bar the early work and return to that later in twenties, any person could do today in the main..with varying degrees of success.



I DO think you are right about networking though, and I don't knock the influence of that. I just don't think it has to be wealth related. Our families are both ''well connected''. My parents made the vast majority f those connections them selves, and dh's mother certainly did. I'll admit DH' father inherited lots. Furthermore, I think the ''practical'' networking DH and I have mainly made ourselves, and its something I'm aware that I do, and do it shamelessly and consciously. I don't think it ever hurts to connect other people for no benefit of your own either, e.g. someone once asked here if the sort of work DH did was relevant to them and it wasn't but I could connect them with someone to whom it was. Gain for me...nothing..wealth involved, for me nothing, from background nada, hopefully lots for both of those parties, I wish I knew! The other thing that helped beyond IS partially confusable with wealth, and that's school and travel. Up until recently this sort of education was not unique, and was a benefit of many people who had foreign work, not least people in the services whose boarding private education was paid for. I believe this has now changed. Interestingly though I was a ''scholarship kid'' in both my academic and non academic places of education and saved the people who would have paid my fees a bit of money. travel is something increasingly available with more cross cultural families. and if not travel then at least ''sense of elsewhere'' and an understanding of more than one culture.

ninky_2

Orpheo wrote: »

...Because wealth is something that may impact upon your prospects, but it isn't the only or even the main thing that will impact upon your prospects, unless you believe it. I wonder if wealthy people believe that their wealth has driven their achievements, I rather think not. On the other hand, those without wealth are quick to blame it for their lack of achievement.

there is no "may" about it. wealth gives you a significant advantage. any statistics will show that and even a general look around or slight nose into the educational backgrounds. of course there are those from underprivileged backgrounds that somehow manage to be successful. similarly there are those who !!!! their opportunities up the wall or whatever. nonetheless it is clear it is not a level playing field. imagine starting a race with a massive handicap. you might still win it but chances are not.

of course the wealthy rarely see their background as having been an advantage. that doesn't mean that it isn't a massive advantage.

all i'm saying is if i was going to have kids i'd personally want them to be able to start the race with the right shoes, the right training and the right diet. i don't see the point of bringing another life into the world to limp along merely being cheered for their gallant effort. that would be stupid imho.

lostinrates

ninky wrote: »

all i'm saying is if i was going to have kids i'd personally want them to be able to start the race with the right shoes, the right training and the right diet. i don't see the point of bringing another life into the world to limp along merely being cheered for their gallant effort. that would be stupid imho.

Ninky, personally I couldn't agree more with this. Its worth also remembering you can give them the right shoes, the right diet and right training and life still throws a stumbling block...they might be ill, or not terribly intelligent or whatever. FWIW,someone who really does want t do the best for their child has an element of good parenting money can't buy.

halight

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

We delayed having children until we were more financially secure.
Now we have one and another on the way.

I also delayed getting married until we lived together for a while.

We also delayed getting married until we bought with the conseideration was that the priority to purchase a home was higher than using the finances to get married.

I think it is good to ensure that you have a good financial footing.
The question is though, does the majority delaying become parents strive towards that goal or are they being fivelous with their current finances?

We lived together for 12 months before we got married. We had been together 4 years by the time we wed.
we waited untill we owned our house before we had a baby (we ended up having twins)

It dose seem that the work shy breed at an early age when the workers and the savers wait and plan there there familys.

treliac

halight wrote: »

we ended up having twins

How lovely. Does that mean that you got the pregnancy stage done and dusted all in one go?

halight

treliac wrote: »

How lovely. Does that mean that you got the pregnancy stage done and dusted all in one go?

We would like another one at some point. But its all down to planning again. At the moment we can not really aford but if it did happen we would cope:)
We planned to have a baby and then when we had a bigger house we were planning to have another baby.
We we ended up haveing a BOGOF:T very MSE:D
We now have a house that is too small for our needs and even know we have spent money on the house sine we moved in i dont think at the moment we would even get back what we paid for it to start with. House prices around here have droped and not even started to recoverd yet. But we are making do The twins dont have mush room to play in the house but thay have a good size garden in play in and both of the garand parnts houses are large so thay love going to them to play:)
We will save, plan, and sort our selfs out.
We will work hard to get to were we wont to be.

treliac

halight wrote: »

We will save, plan, and sort our selfs out.
We will work hard to get to were we wont to be.

And you'll deserve everything you achieve. Good luck!