When can our dog have puppies? (and how much will it cost?!)

Penny_Watcher

I know it's a bit late now, but having a b!tch spayed before her first season will protect her from developing mammary [sp?] (breast) cancer in later life.

Our family dog when we were kids was a pedigree boxer b!tch. My Mum and Dad decided that she should have 'just one litter'. After vet fees, stud fees and all the other expenses they hardly made a profit.

The poor old dog died 6 years later of mammary cancer. I was horrible, absolutely awful, to watch your beloved pet die of what was essentially a preventable disease.

Both my b!tches were spayed as soon as the vet recommeded. I'm sure they would have made lovely mums, but for every puppy they would have produced that would have been one less home available to a resuce dog.

fabianne

Hi Penny-we had to take the mad pup to an emergency vet and we had this chat with him and he recommended exactly the same as you-before her 1st season-whereas our own vet wants us to wait till after her 1st season as she said she could develop incontinence in later life...puzzling eh?
I am dreading her having the op-I know she will be in safe hands but she is our little girl! (Told you I was a softie!)Maybe I should chat again to our vet?When I asked for a quote for the op,they told me they went off her weight/breed-maybe,just maybe they ask you to wait to charge more?Not that I am being cynical at all??
Wish there was a pet's board on here-I have a question about having dew claws removed too.
Support manytears animal rescue-google their website! They rescue ex breeding dogs who have had a bad start in life,kept in puppy farms,not even named/loved/walked and are desperate for a good home-even sending a few tins of cheap sardines will help the sad doggies!

shirlgirl2004

straws wrote:

Our dog is 1 year old and has just started her 2nd season. We want her to have puppies (well, my OH does more than me), but I think she might be a bit young? I'm also a bit concerned about the cost - does anyone know what's involved? We're not looking to make much money from selling them, but I don't want to be out of pocket either.
Sorry if this is the wrong place, but I consider her to be part of the family! Perhaps there should be a pets board?

I own, breed & show Chinese Crested dogs. A rare and valuable breed you might think. So why is it that on the last litter I bred I made a loss of about £700? The sire was a champion and the !!!!! a Crufts winner. I'll tell you why because I went into it for the right reasons. I wanted another puppy to show. I drove from Essex to Exeter to have the dog mated. I had the dog scanned so I knew whether I'd need to take time off work around the time puppies would be due. As it was there was only 1 puppy so the !!!!! didn't show signs of pregnancy until the week before the pup was due. I sold the pup to a great home for only £200 because it was a dog and I only keep !!!!!es.

I spent days sleeping in the spare room just incase the pups arrived early (they have a tendancy to in cresteds). I bought supplies of milk and bottles etc just in case. New vet bedding for the welping box etc etc. It all mounts up. The birth was straight forward although I had to cut the cord but I have the approriate clamping scissors so not a problem.

Worning the !!!!!, the puppy, feeding the puppy. You can't believe how it all mounts up. You could well be out of pocket.

I don't know if there are examinations Patterdales should go through before breeding but if there are they should be done. The breed club will be able to tell you the minimum age for breeding from your !!!!!. In my breed it's 18 months.

As has been said already if you breed a puppy you become responsible for it for life. That includes someone returning a 2 year old badly behaved dog to you because they can't cope. What would you do with it?

Sorry to have gone on but I feel you have to have some idea of what you're considering taking on.

fabianne

Do people REALLY return badly behaved dogs to their breeders????
Surely this would be the owners problem in the main,as they have a responsibility to train their dog,spend the time and effort with them?A pup ain't a pair of shoes that you can take back if they pinch your feet.Or an accessory to match your fav outfit.
I am gobsmacked!
We have had some fun and games with her in the pic on the left (just sussed out how to do it!yeeeeaahh!!) but I take every aspect of owning a dog very seriously -and she is wonderful.I would never consider giving her back,she is a huge part of our family and I would think any problems were mine to deal with or get help for.

Eels100

fabianne wrote:

Do people REALLY return badly behaved dogs to their breeders????
Surely this would be the owners problem in the main,as they have a responsibility to train their dog,spend the time and effort with them.

Yes, people can and do return dogs to the breeder. Firstly, they are often contractually obliged to do this, and secondly, responsible breeders very frequently maintain lifetime contact with the owners of dogs they have bred, and are the first port of call when the owner has difficulties. Things like family breakup, illness, house moves and also a whole host of silly reasons can lead to dogs being rehomed. These dogs would find themselves in dog rescues frequently were it not for the committment of the breeders. Also, as good breeders 'vet' prospective owners carefully they usually choose good homes where owners are responsible enough not to need to return the dog. You might be surprised how many breed clubs operate their own rescue organisations though.

Again, to the OP, I hope you didn't feel that my post was 'over the top' as was suggested by someone else - I'm purely offering you my experience of this kind of undertaking. I have seen people many times left devastated by the loss of their b itch, or desperately worried about how to afford a £600 vet bill resulting from one night's attention. Not to mention the number of pups from irresponsible breeders which have not been correctly fed, wormed and socialised and arrive with their new owners struggling to cope with their poor health and temperament. Pups from this sort of background, as well as not having a good start in life are also far more likely to end up in rescue because poor socialisation at an early age often results in problems with training and behaviour. I can often point out a pup from a good background. I can also tell you about 7 week old puppies that have tried to bite me (aggressively!) when handled - mainly because they were from a !!!!! with a bad nature and hadn't been socialised properly.

So I have plenty reason to want to give someone in your position all the information I can - after all, the request was for advice. I don't like seeing puppies, b itches and their owners miserable, ill or distressed, and it's all preventable. One could argue this board isn't even the right place for this conversation at all, because I'm afraid this is one thing in which moneysaving really shouldn't come into it! :money: :rotfl:

Penny_Watcher

fabianne wrote:

I would never consider giving her back,she is a huge part of our family and I would think any problems were mine to deal with or get help for.

I agree 100%, however not all dog owners take their responsibilities seriously enough. Dog rescue shelters are full of pups and young dogs who's first owners didn't realise what they were taking on board. THINK before you get a dog. It's like having toddler in your house for the next 15 years :eek: I love my 'toddlers' to bits, but we didn't consider getting them until about 2 1/2 years ago. For the previous 7 years the kids had been saying "can-we-have-a-dog-yet?, can-we-have-a-dog-yet?, can-we-have-a-dog-yet?" It was only when I was in a position to give up work that I knew I would have the extra time to devote to properly look after a dog.

shirlgirl2004 seems to be an admirable dog breeder, doing it with alot of forethought for all the right reasons.

WeirdoMagnet

fabianne wrote:

I have a question about having dew claws removed too.

Tilly had her one dew claw removed when we had her spayed about a year ago. Ask your vet, it's a routine procedure that they generally do when they neuter.

It is worrying when they go to be neutered, I worked the morning so I didn't wander round being worried, and took the afternoon off so I could collect her. Leaving her behind with the vet nurse was the worst bit, and picking up such a dopey dog that didn't even recognise us (at first) was a close second! She was fine though, and amongst other things it's a relief not to have to worry about her ever being in season again, never mind the other long-term health benefits.

With regards to your other point about people returning badly behaved dogs - yes they do, and many others are left to their own devices, dumped, or handed in to rescue. Not every potential dog owner thinks about the committment a dog needs, and not every dog owner cares about or takes responsibility for their dog!

Raksha

fabianne wrote:

Do people REALLY return badly behaved dogs to their breeders????
Surely this would be the owners problem in the main,as they have a responsibility to train their dog,spend the time and effort with them?A pup ain't a pair of shoes that you can take back if they pinch your feet.Or an accessory to match your fav outfit.
I am gobsmacked!
We have had some fun and games with her in the pic on the left (just sussed out how to do it!yeeeeaahh!!) but I take every aspect of owning a dog very seriously -and she is wonderful.I would never consider giving her back,she is a huge part of our family and I would think any problems were mine to deal with or get help for.

Yes, and not just badly behaved dogs - I run puppy classes, and I've just had one owner want a refund of their money because they are returning they lovely Beagle pup to the breeder as they 'just aren't dog people'....... They also wanted a refund from me!

bulchy

fabianne wrote:

Do people REALLY return badly behaved dogs to their breeders????
Surely this would be the owners problem in the main,as they have a responsibility to train their dog,spend the time and effort with them?A pup ain't a pair of shoes that you can take back if they pinch your feet.Or an accessory to match your fav outfit.
I am gobsmacked!
We have had some fun and games with her in the pic on the left (just sussed out how to do it!yeeeeaahh!!) but I take every aspect of owning a dog very seriously -and she is wonderful.I would never consider giving her back,she is a huge part of our family and I would think any problems were mine to deal with or get help for.

Hi Fabianne, we have a rescued weimy, we are his third, and forever home, and we hope to rescue another when we get more space. People dont just return dogs to breeders because of bad behaviour, sometimes they just get bored of them or there circumstances change, you would be shocked at some of the reasons people put there dogs into rescue for, but if people want to breed, I believe they should also be prepared to take the dogs back or at least help re-home the dogs too, no matter how old the dog is when it needs to be re-homed.
We also have an American Cocker who we bought from a very reliable breeder, last year we had a phone call from her to say she was looking for a home for a pup she had taken back as the new owner could no longer keep him because of illness, she asked us because of the amount of people that had admired Belle, and showed an interest in her. She did find a home for this pup, but if she hadnt, she would have kept him herself.
Sue

JennyW_2

UKTigerlily wrote:

Just my opinion & no offence meant, but why are you/OH wanting to breed from her?

this is my thought! There are so many thousands of dogs in rescue, roaming the streets and as you said, it's not about the money. It would be more responsible to have your dog spayed and not let her pups be another rescue statistic.

as hayleyc said "why breed and buy when others die". You should pop along to a local rescue centre and see all the homeless dogs and puppies. It's heartbreaking.

I have 2 rescue dogs. I would never purchase from a breeder and encourage further breeding.