Vauxhall - timing chain

bigjl

Flying-High wrote: »

Can you elaborate on the reputation for chocolate camshafts? I've just done a quick google and didn't kick up much if anything.

Wasn't aware of problems with the camshafts only the lack of lube causing the death of the timing chain.

Probably because the problem was well before Google was around, plus these days Google isn't as good as it used to be, I have tried to search the name of my wifes company and a mates compeny and even whe you put in the exact web address they still pop up on page two or three, Google keywords or whatever it is called seems to be part of the problem.

The 2.2 has always been regarded in the trade since it came out as having issues with the top end, I think there where more modification than just due to lack of lubrication to the camchain, but there was lack of lubrication to the entire top end aswell.

Can't remember the exact problem, but the trade tended to avoid the 2.2 due to it's record with top end wear.

A lot of sporty Astras had the 2.2, especiallt the coupe, and it proved to be very sensitive to poor maintenance, in the same way as you get topend and camchain issues in the 2.0T Saab 95 when oil changes where left till 12k or cheap oil was used you had the same problems, though I don't think the engines are that similar, probably just coincidence that they had the same issue.

The agreed policy back in the late '90s was to change the oil at 6k and use full synthetic on the Saab 2.0T, the same went for the 2.2 VX engine, shorten the interval and use top quality full synthetic oil.

There are some things that you just won't get the information about on Google, especially when they weren't widely publicised at the time, the 2.2 didn't seel in large numbers, but you can find info' on the Saab 95 2.0T top end and camchain issues easily on Google, maybe it isn't a coincidence that at the time GM also owned Saab?

Flying-High_2

I see... it was before Google........ Damn them Googlebots....:rotfl:

Just that I've not really seen it mentioned on the Vauxhall Forums either inc the Z22SE forum....... Interesting... I'll dig deeper.

With the Z22SE its the Oil Nozzle like stated that is of small diamater and blocks all too easily... Hence them requiring fresh oil on time. The fix is the newer larger diameter nozzle. The Chain Kit also comes with a differeent tensioner now I believe... not compared the part numbers but its apparently from the Z20LET engine. The guide rails also break up on these leaving the chain to flap about and potentially jump a tooth or 2.

If in doubt its well worth swapping the chain tensioners guides for peace of mind... and the Oil Nozzle while your in there.... Also have a look at the balancer chain while your in there.... save dicking about again afterwards.

bigjl

Flying-High wrote: »

I see... it was before Google........ Damn them Googlebots....:rotfl:

Just that I've not really seen it mentioned on the Vauxhall Forums either inc the Z22SE forum....... Interesting... I'll dig deeper.

With the Z22SE its the Oil Nozzle like stated that is of small diamater and blocks all too easily... Hence them requiring fresh oil on time. The fix is the newer larger diameter nozzle. The Chain Kit also comes with a differeent tensioner now I believe... not compared the part numbers but its apparently from the Z20LET engine. The guide rails also break up on these leaving the chain to flap about and potentially jump a tooth or 2.

If in doubt its well worth swapping the chain tensioners guides for peace of mind... and the Oil Nozzle while your in there.... Also have a look at the balancer chain while your in there.... save dicking about again afterwards.

I seem to remember that it was a lot worse with the early ones, especially the Astra Coupe, and it was some form of oil starvation issue, a fair few engines where replaced when under warranty when the MK4 Astra came out, makes me wonder if both problems where more to do with cheap or poor servicing.

Though I have heard a fair few Omega 2.2's go through the Auction with noisy topends, not sure if the engine is exactly the same, but probably very similar if not identical.

I wonder if they uprate the oil pump when they change the other parts during the recall, maybe they even modified the oil delivery system to the top end.

At the time the local VX dealer always had a 2.2 coming in for work, and we used to see them a lot with slightly noisy engines.

Sometimes an engine gets a reputation in the trade, even when the problem is sorted, as the old saying goes, "Why take the chance".

Especially when the 2.0 was so close on performance, and was abit better on fuel.

There are a few 2.2 Zafiras about these days, new shape, and they don't seem to hold their value that well, maybe relevant, might just be an undeserved stigma.

Flying-High_2

Field remedy 1532 was just upgraded tensioners and Oil nozzles and obviously new chain and chain guides no Oilway or Pump upgrades

The Omega 2.2 is belt driven and theres a couple of different versions..... Different head set up to the 2.2 Vec I believe maybe even the same as the x20XEV.... Not done much with Omegas so I maybe way off the mark however....

johnnyroper

I certainly don't remember any other issues with the z22se apart from the timing chain issue and I worked at vaux dealer for several years.

The 2.2 fitted to omega,sintra and frontera was the belt 22xe and was same setup as 18xe and 20xev,the top end noise was the lifters and not cams a result of lack of servicing/running low on oil in my experience

bigjl

I think it might be dependant on where you where based and the kind of owner that had the car, I worked in North London, (late '90s), not far from Tottenham, so perhaps the "yoof massive" not looking after their expensive cars may have had an effect, we are talking about when the 2.2 was first put in the Astra and Vectra not the later years when the issue was dealt with.

Though over the years I have heard loads of 2.2 Astras and Vectras go through the auction and high proportion have been noisy on the top end.

I didn't work at a franchised dealer so have to defer to your more detailed knowledge on this johnnyroper and flying-high.

But the earlier vauxhall petrol lumps as fitted to the Cavalier where bullet proof and able to absord huge amounts of abuse.

Perhaps I have been over critical of the 2.2 camchain engine, and to be honest have seen a fair few Omega 2.2's with big miles and thought the engines where different as the only engine in the Omega that I knew to have a chain was the BMW diesel and (i think) the 2.2 DTi.

I still think that the risk isn't worth it for the extra 19 or so bhp and no cambelts to change.

And if I had one I would use fully synthetic oil and change at 6k, in the same way i would with a Saab 95.

It is entirely possible that my opinion and the accepted opinion in my nick of the woods was primarily down to lack of proper servicing.

Flying-high you talk about the oil nozzles being changed as part of the upgrade, is it possible that some of these modifications could have improved oil flow to the rest of the top end, not just the camchain.

Plus we all know how secretive Vauxhall can be when there is an issue, they still haven't told dealers how to sort the problem of DPFs on Zafiras yet, just recommeding they put them through a regen cycle or change them, the fitters at my work have over 200 to look after, was almost 350 at one point but a few have been written off, and even though they are trained by VX they still have no solution to the EGR problems and DPF problems.

Charmed0103

I won't change the car, I absolutely adore my vectra and worked very hard to get it!!! Although it is a non runner at the moment, I still believe it's 2 good 2 scrap I have authorised the work to be done today and will get on at vauxhall 2moz 2 see if I can get any help, I am not defeated yet and will fight a bit more lol. Thanks peeps for all the info 2day, made very interesting reading!!!!! Will let u no how I get on

jcb208

I Have the same car my timing chain jumped at 92000 miles still ran but no low end power, had it replaced by some one who does several of them a week ,cost £260 which was a bargain as vauxhall quoted £700.They all go eventually and yes my oil way was blocked starving the chain of oil.Think you have no chance of vauxhall helping out on a 9 year old car what ever the milagethere cut off for this problem was 6 years and then only with a full service history

johnnyroper

bigjl wrote: »

I think it might be dependant on where you where based and the kind of owner that had the car, I worked in North London, (late '90s), not far from Tottenham, so perhaps the "yoof massive" not looking after their expensive cars may have had an effect, we are talking about when the 2.2 was first put in the Astra and Vectra not the later years when the issue was dealt with.

Though over the years I have heard loads of 2.2 Astras and Vectras go through the auction and high proportion have been noisy on the top end.

I didn't work at a franchised dealer so have to defer to your more detailed knowledge on this johnnyroper and flying-high.

But the earlier vauxhall petrol lumps as fitted to the Cavalier where bullet proof and able to absord huge amounts of abuse.

Perhaps I have been over critical of the 2.2 camchain engine, and to be honest have seen a fair few Omega 2.2's with big miles and thought the engines where different as the only engine in the Omega that I knew to have a chain was the BMW diesel and (i think) the 2.2 DTi.

I still think that the risk isn't worth it for the extra 19 or so bhp and no cambelts to change.

And if I had one I would use fully synthetic oil and change at 6k, in the same way i would with a Saab 95.

It is entirely possible that my opinion and the accepted opinion in my nick of the woods was primarily down to lack of proper servicing.

Flying-high you talk about the oil nozzles being changed as part of the upgrade, is it possible that some of these modifications could have improved oil flow to the rest of the top end, not just the camchain.

Plus we all know how secretive Vauxhall can be when there is an issue, they still haven't told dealers how to sort the problem of DPFs on Zafiras yet, just recommeding they put them through a regen cycle or change them, the fitters at my work have over 200 to look after, was almost 350 at one point but a few have been written off, and even though they are trained by VX they still have no solution to the EGR problems and DPF problems.

i agree the early red top lumps fitted to camalsears,calibra's and not to forget astra gte/gsi (c20xe) was fantastic and bullet proof.

you are correct only timing chain lumps in omega was the bmw 25dt (cracking lump) and the y22dth (noisy bag o sh1te)

at auctions the chances are cars have been stood a while this causes oil to drain out of the hydraulic lifters thus causing the rattly top end,this will be even worse if a non genuine oil filter is fitted or it is due an oil change.
no engines are immune from problems and the 22se has probably had a few failures but i have honestly not heard of them myself other than timing chain.The lads at dealer where i used to work say not had anything out of the ordinary go wrong with the engine no mention of cams or top ends by all accounts it is a fairly good engine.

knightrider_2

Just had to replace the timing chain on my 2007 Vectra 2.2 SRI which decided one day just to jump off the sprocket. Thankfully and amazingly no damage to the valves/head.

It has been fully maintained at the main dealer and done 70k. Only recently moved away from main dealer service to a local garage given the age of the car.

The car has alway been ticking at the top end for ages and I just thought it was a "feature" of the car. Now it is purring like the proverbial cat, I realise that wasn't the case.

My view is that this is a non-servicable item, there have been no recalls issued by Vauxhall and yet it is a known and common problem and should reasonably long time, not five years. I will be writing to Vauxhall on that basis so fingers crossed.

If your Vauxhall fitted with a timing chain is ticking it will undoubtedly need a new timing chain (in my view).