Early-retirement wannabe

bugslet

atush wrote: »

How do we join Bugslet?

Anonymous101 wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear how the walk through's are done though.

About ten years ago, a group of us on a different (womans) forum decided to get our 10,000 and more steps a day. We diligently measured our stride lengths ( before fitbits etc were popular) and I averaged it out to equate to x many steps= 1 mile, so collectively we could cover 50, for example, miles a day. The following day, I'd post about where we were, nice pictures, snippets of info, nothing too heavy as it was all very light hearted.

We have covered many routes, round the coast of Britain, across Europe, east & west coast of the States, route 66, Oz and NZ, ( we have a Kiwi and a Yank), the odd pilgramige route, Argentina was enjoyable. Trouble is after all this time, we are running out of countries, so the mileage totting up has gone out of the window and we do things like visit World Heritage Sites. Currently we are doing the Silk Road and are in Baku, Azerbaijan.

As I said, after all that time, we have morphed from a group of fat middle aged women into 20 year old bikini babes, with a penchant for alcohol and fast living, and occasional imprisonment. To explain how bizarre it has become, we have a virtual RV driven by someone that wanted to be a Stepsister, but doesn't like walking, so she drives the virtual RV. Though not over bridges. It really isn't serious and the daily quality is highly dependent on finding a place that is worth talking about. Desert areas, sheesh.

You asked:o I hesitate to recommend anyone join us as it's bonkers really.

OldMusicGuy wrote: »

Most primates struggle to think long term due to something called temporal discounting (we value pleasure now more than in the future), there's a whole field of interesting research called neuroeconomics that looks at this (based in part on experiments with monkeys). How many threads do we see on here from people with great DB pensions saying "I want to transfer it because I could get a big slug of money now, who cares about a nice secure pension in the future"?

Some personality types are also "thrill seekers" and thus need a hit of instant gratification compared to benefits in the future (a psychopathic trait), so looking for future benefits would not be something that overly concerned them.

I get what you are saying though. I suspect your perspective, like mine, is probably coloured by the fact that you are more than halfway through your life, so it's easier for you to look overall at what you have achieved/will achieve and come to a sense of balance/satisfaction. I could not have achieved the sense of completeness I have now even 10 years ago, because my circumstances were so different. So I think age plays a big part, hence the early-retirement wannabees need to be very aware of this.

PS There's nothing worse than a retired person with too much time on their hands that loves reading and researching all kinds of different stuff. Apologies if I am turning into a know-it-all (it is part of my personality traits btw....)

OMG, that was interesting - I shall go and look up neuroeconomics and temporal discounting. If you feel so inclined and have any links you can post that you rate on the subjects, I'd be obliged, but don't feel you have to!

OldMusicGuy

bugslet wrote: »

OMG, that was interesting - I shall go and look up neuroeconomics and temporal discounting. If you feel so inclined and have any links you can post that you rate on the subjects, I'd be obliged, but don't feel you have to!

Most of the neuroeconomics stuff is pretty science-heavy, but I really liked this overview: https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/what-is-neuroeconomics

This is a good article on temporal discounting and pension planning that I posed in another thread: https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/retirement-planning-psychology-and-behavioural-economics/

If you want to find out about personality traits and disorders, this is a good overview of the DSM IV and DSM V approaches: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-shrink-tank/201002/dsm-v-offers-new-criteria-personality-disorders

I used the DSM IV tests to highlight that I likely have obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (not OCD, which is different, but as an obsessive-compulsive I had to point that out). This helped me understand why I made poor, highly risk averse pension investment choices when I was younger. And also why I am happier staying at home relaxing rather than travelling the world.

kidmugsy

There is another problem, one that I had diagnosed myself from reading many posts here moaning about annuities. The point that stuck out was that such posts typically don't imply a rational understanding of the merits of annuities. Although they often allude to current low annuity rates, that's often not the core of the complaint - it's more often explaining-away rather than explaining the posters' attitudes. Such posts are often mere rants.

These authors are rather blunt about the problem.
http://crr.bc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IB_15-6_508.pdf

bugslet

Thanks OMG, I shall look forward to reading those.

kidmugsy wrote: »

There is another problem, one that I had diagnosed myself from reading many posts here moaning about annuities. The point that stuck out was that such posts typically don't imply a rational understanding of the merits of annuities. Although they often allude to current low annuity rates, that's often not the core of the complaint - it's more often explaining-away rather than explaining the posters' attitudes. Such posts are often mere rants.

These authors are rather blunt about the problem.
http://crr.bc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IB_15-6_508.pdf

I have an IFA handle my pension and investments. I've read up on investing, Tim Hale etc and could probably give it a go, but I feel that the IFA is going to be far better at it than I, partly because of knowledge and partly because I know I can be pretty reckless, not rational at all. Limiting my involvement to looking at statements is one of the few intelligent things I seem to have done!

michaels

kidmugsy wrote: »

There is another problem, one that I had diagnosed myself from reading many posts here moaning about annuities. The point that stuck out was that such posts typically don't imply a rational understanding of the merits of annuities. Although they often allude to current low annuity rates, that's often not the core of the complaint - it's more often explaining-away rather than explaining the posters' attitudes. Such posts are often mere rants.

These authors are rather blunt about the problem.
http://crr.bc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IB_15-6_508.pdf

In response to the article of course there is the possibility that those who are 'bad with money' recognise this fact and are thus averse to any change from the 'govt pension default level' which they do understand. They know if they got a lump sum for less pension they would just fritter it and if they are wary of buying a financial product like an annuity as they know they don't understand the maths and thus fear being ripped off.

The suggestion from the research is that an unscrupulous FA could advocate cashing in a DB pension for a poor value lump sum (plus a large commission to the FA) especially to a less clued up pensioner - British Steel South Wales fiasco spring to mind?!

Anonymous101

OldMusicGuy wrote: »

Most primates struggle to think long term due to something called temporal discounting (we value pleasure now more than in the future), there's a whole field of interesting research called neuroeconomics that looks at this (based in part on experiments with monkeys). How many threads do we see on here from people with great DB pensions saying "I want to transfer it because I could get a big slug of money now, who cares about a nice secure pension in the future"?

Some personality types are also "thrill seekers" and thus need a hit of instant gratification compared to benefits in the future (a psychopathic trait), so looking for future benefits would not be something that overly concerned them.

I get what you are saying though. I suspect your perspective, like mine, is probably coloured by the fact that you are more than halfway through your life, so it's easier for you to look overall at what you have achieved/will achieve and come to a sense of balance/satisfaction. I could not have achieved the sense of completeness I have now even 10 years ago, because my circumstances were so different. So I think age plays a big part, hence the early-retirement wannabees need to be very aware of this.

PS There's nothing worse than a retired person with too much time on their hands that loves reading and researching all kinds of different stuff. Apologies if I am turning into a know-it-all (it is part of my personality traits btw....)

:rotfl: Not a know it all at all. I find it interesting. Although I have a Biology degree and favored the animal sciences in my education so I'm heavily bias!

You're correct of course. Its a survival mechanism that lots of animals show. Over eating being one of the most common area's its shown. I'd have thought though that having a higher brain function would enable more people to recognise that trait in themselves and act to balance it out somewhat. Then again the amount of people both in debt and overweight should tell us that we're not very good at that!

I'm 36 so possibly not as old as you thought although I've often been labeled with being too sensible so I'm not surprised by your assumption. I tend to think in numbers and naturally look at life with a more objective view point so I may be slightly better at choosing the delayed satisfaction route than most. Or a natural tight !!!! as many of my mates would say! :j

OldMusicGuy

Anonymous101 wrote: »

You're correct of course. Its a survival mechanism that lots of animals show. Over eating being one of the most common area's its shown. I'd have thought though that having a higher brain function would enable more people to recognise that trait in themselves and act to balance it out somewhat. Then again the amount of people both in debt and overweight should tell us that we're not very good at that!

Well, we've been dodging sabre tooth tigers and the like for far longer than we've had fridges and pension plans, so those base evolutionary instincts do tend to take over (you should read Kahneman's "Thinking, Fast and Slow" if you haven't already).

Anonymous101 wrote: »

I'm 36 so possibly not as old as you thought although I've often been labeled with being too sensible so I'm not surprised by your assumption. I tend to think in numbers and naturally look at life with a more objective view point so I may be slightly better at choosing the delayed satisfaction route than most. Or a natural tight !!!! as many of my mates would say! :j

Good on you although I suspect you are in the minority. Although my son (bless him) is a natural tightwad and is good with his money, much better than I was at his age. Although a lot of that comes from me badgering him to save and max out pension contributions.

kidmugsy

michaels wrote: »

In response to the article of course there is the possibility that those who are 'bad with money' recognise this fact and are thus averse to any change from the 'govt pension default level' which they do understand.

The authors covered that point by asking both about swapping income for capital and capital for income. They discovered that many people give answers that are mutually inconsistent.

michaels wrote: »

The suggestion from the research is that an unscrupulous FA could advocate cashing in a DB pension for a poor value lump sum (plus a large commission to the FA) especially to a less clued up pensioner - British Steel South Wales fiasco spring to mind?!

The authors didn't make that suggestion. What they found is, however, consistent with many steelworkers making seriously
stupid decisions. There's no need to drag FAs into the discussion: there's an ongoing thread at the moment where a chap seems determined to rob himself by transferring an LGPS DB pension on dismal terms.

One thing that may be important even in the US is the common belief that if someone wilfully mucks up his finances other people will be taxed to rescue him from the consequences of his decisions. The famous Beveridge Report of the early 1940s warned against those sorts of perverse incentives but the postwar government that reformed the welfare state presumably had a shrewder idea of how to buy votes.

JoeEngland

Less of a mouthful than "temporal discounting" is "present bias" which is the same thing:

https://www.ezonomics.com/whatis/present_bias/

justme111

I think I understand what you mean , anonymous, and my reply would be the same- whatever brings one the biggest enjoyment over life time. If one is wired the way for It to be experienced from flashy cars then whatever provides most expensive cars in his lifetime without affecting it negatively in one's opinion in other ways.

I reckon temporal discounting is not so much psychological as mathematical function- between now and tomorrow when one would be suposed to have the jam a lot can happen-one's taste change, jam go off ,one die,one suddenly find tons of jam so that the previously planned jar has no value any more , jam being stolen or confiscated etc. So probability of it happening impacts on the value of jam tomorrow versus today.

Interesting topic is whether all the values have the same weight in happiness yield or some provide for truer happiness.
Going back to car examples if one spent the life deriving pleasure from driving flashy cars would it be in my way less benefitial to one than studying languages or seeing their children to be happy and approve of their lives if the pleasure derived is the same in depth and duration ? Or some types of gratification are by definition faulty because they never can bring happiness comparable to others ? For example the feeling of accomplishment due to being better than others can never bring true happiness because there always will be someone better than one ?

One more observation- have you noticed that we disapprove of sacrificing future good for present while it has not been mentioned yet the danger of wasting opportunities for better life now in many senses in a pursuit of a better life later. As anonymous written , it should be the total sum.