laid off but can carry on self employed on price

xbox_99

At work (joinery, cabinet making firm) me and all the others 6 collegues have finally been given our redundancy notice due to the company not making any money mmmmmm.
Some of us have been offered our jobs back on a self employed basis on a price.
The main reason for the close down is the boss is a love sick idiot on a mental break with a enough money not to run the firm while the goes off to the priory.

Its so unfair i've been with the firm two years, so i've got 2 weeks notice to get another job or take the naf tight !!! price work without any soft of contract etc

Is this right? Apperently thre are new laws to allow employers to do this acording to my boss.(Me thinks rubbish)

SarEl

There are no new laws that allow an employer to do this - but there are no old ones that stop him doing it either! If an employer wishes to be a "love sick idiot" (or any other kind of idiot) then they are permitted to be. If he chooses not to run the firm he is allowed to do so. All he needs to do is show that there is a diminished requirement for the work (why it diminished is not relevant) or the number of workers, and he is then permitted to make staff redundant. The only difference to this would be is you are suggesting that he would continue to employ the same number of staff for the same hours after the redundancies, in which case there may be a claim for unfair dismissal. But it certainly isn't as starighforward as you seem to think, and you would need legal advice to clarify the situation.

xbox_99

thanks for the reply

this evening my boss approached me, gave me 5 drawings of work that has been won by the company,

I was then told the materials they are to be made from and i was asked me to give him a price to build them...

this work will be done while i am an employee and will be done over a period of 2months continuing well after my last day of employment. tuesday 16.11.2010

ceridwen

He's a cheeky so-and-so isnt he!

You've not even agreed (more or less reluctantly) to work on a self-employed basis for him and he's trying to treat you as if you HAVE agreed. Nerve of the man....I guess what he is trying to do is have you give him a price/start work on this project and, at some point, you would find you were still there working on it after your finish date and he would use that fact as "evidence" that you HAD agreed (even though you hadnt).

I think you might be well advised to give him a letter (keeping a copy of course for yourself) stating "I note that you have made me redundant with effect from 16.11.2010. With regard to the work you asked me to undertake on x project - I am, of course, happy to do this for you whilst I am still your employee - but must point out that it will not be possible to complete this by my last day of employment (ie 16.11.2010)."


What he is trying to do - in saying "Now give me a price for this piece of work" is trying to put you in a position where it looks as if you HAVE agreed to working on a self-employed basis - because you would have started doing so. DON'T FALL FOR THIS OBVIOUS SET-UP. Do NOT give him a price for any work whatever you do!!!

So - right now - remind him your last day IS 16.11.2010 and tell him/keep on telling him until you are blue in the face in fact that you "dont understand" why he is asking you to quote a price for doing a piece of work - as you have not agreed to work for him on a self-employed basis. Remind him - at every possible excuse in every possible way - that you are an EMPLOYEE of his and you know you will be redundant as from 17.11.2010.

If he tries to get you to start work on this lengthy project - then tell him you are perfectly happy to work on this, "but you do know that there won't be sufficient time to complete it by 16.11.2010 - so what parts of it do you want me to prioritise please?"

xbox_99

thanks again for the great advice. The man is unreal and is carrying on like nothing has happened and everyone is happy.

Sambucus_Nigra

rivnog wrote: »

thanks again for the great advice. The man is unreal and is carrying on like nothing has happened and everyone is happy.

The only way some of you might get to keep your jobs is if you all say no to the SE work.

Of course, he might just employ from an agency then - but that's the chance you take.

Can you and your chums start up on your own and undercut him with his clients?

full-time-mum

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

Can you and your chums start up on your own and undercut him with his clients?

This sounds like something worth considering. There is obviously work out there.

If the guy is messing you about, then it is quite possible he is messing his clients about too and they may approach your new company directly.

macman

Where is this 'self employed' work to be carried out? If it's on his premises, using his equipment and to hours of his choosing, then it's very unlikely that HMRC will consider this self employment for tax purposes.

Tom_Jones

It is not easy to set yourself up as a joinery buisness, you would have to fork out for premisis,machines etc.

I would walk out of your job, along with the other five employees. It is not easy to find skilled joiners, and I'm sure he will have a change of heart if he has won this contract and is on a deadline.

fuse

Hi, just to chip in a little. What people have said is true, if you are made redunadant and then start up as "self employed", sole trader etc and you go back to work for this guy (and only do work for him) then you will be reagrded as an employee by HMRC.

The regulation is known as IR35 as was specificaly introduced to stop people from avoiding tax etc, in exactly the circumstances you descibe.

xbox_99

that basically it , to save money on tax and ni and to shift the day to day running to the business way from him. We are been ask to source fridges taps and information on details from clients within a given price. So basically he is hoping that we'll give a price and miss things off.... not me... last day 16 November bit gutted but with a boss like this they cannot get much worse!

Now he is realising eveyone is leavng boss had big lump in throat this evening... lol