Closing a barclays account

LSEdwards

Premier wrote: »

Not quite.

Whilst the bank is obliged to take a payers word for any claim under the DD guarantee and repay the payer, the Originator can appeal such a claim and if successful will get the money back from the bank ... who of course will have it debited from the Payers account again.

Edit: and according to the earlier thread by the OP, the contested DD relates to one that appears they tried to transfer to collect from another account too close to the collection date. i.e. after the BACs file would have been submitted:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2838278

I don't think this is absolutely correct.

The Payer will be immediately refunded if they submit a claim under the DD Guarantee.

Under Paperles DD rules, originators cannot counter claim following receipt of an indemnity claim for the reason 'payer disputes having given authority'.

It will depend on whether the payer set up the DD by paper or not.

At the end of the day if you claim back through the DD Guarantee it will be down to a civil dispute between yourself and the company that thinks you owe them money.

If the cause of the claim was due to a bank error then you should be OK.

zppp

sue4386 wrote: »

Premier, I'm sorry to bother you but do you know what the abbreviations POA/GA mean? They are listed on a third party authority mandate..

POA = Power of Attorney
GA = ?

zppp

LSEdwards wrote: »

I don't think this is absolutely correct.

The Payer will be immediately refunded if they submit a claim under the DD Guarantee.

Under Paperles DD rules, originators cannot counter claim following receipt of an indemnity claim for the reason 'payer disputes having given authority'.

It will depend on whether the payer set up the DD by paper or not.

At the end of the day if you claim back through the DD Guarantee it will be down to a civil dispute between yourself and the company that thinks you owe them money.

If the cause of the claim was due to a bank error then you should be OK.

This is incorrect.

According to BACS who run the direct debit system here, it is stated for paperless direct debits;

Q. If a customer does not recall authorising a Direct Debit payment which has been made from their account what action should be taken?

A. The customer's bank should request a copy of the Direct Debit Instruction from you and under the terms of the Direct Debit Guarantee, whilst this is being verified, the customer is entitled to a refund of the debited amount. If you are unable to supply a copy of the Direct Debit Instruction within 7 working days, which is likely to be the situation for Paperless Direct Debit originators, then you must refund the bank with the amount of the payment. You will then need to liaise with the customer.

This would indicate that if they can provide sufficient evidence of the authority, they will be able to counterclaim.

LSEdwards

zppp wrote: »

This is incorrect.

According to BACS who run the direct debit system here, it is stated for paperless direct debits;


This would indicate that if they can provide sufficient evidence of the authority, they will be able to counterclaim.

For Paperless DD there can never be satisfactory evidence of authority so that is why the rule is different:

http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesses/DirectDebit/Services/Pages/PaperlessDD.aspx

zppp

LSEdwards wrote: »

For Paperless DD there can never be satisfactory evidence of authority so that is why the rule is different:

http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesses/DirectDebit/Services/Pages/PaperlessDD.aspx

It says unlikely not never.

LSEdwards

zppp wrote: »

It says unlikely not never.

Sorry where does it say that?

The direct quote which I gave "originators cannot counter claim following receipt of an indemnity claim for the reason 'payer disputes having given authority" comes from the PDD section of the BACS website.

I am currently working for a bank and have just completed some DD training so I think I am right, but if you can find the way to make a counter claim I would be interested.

Can you give me an example of how you could have indisputable evidence of authority via a paperless method? I believe that the law would require a signature.

LSEdwards

LSEdwards wrote: »

Sorry where does it say that?

Apologies, I see it now. The BACS website is inconsistent but it is the Q&A that is phrased badly.

zppp

LSEdwards wrote: »

Sorry where does it say that?

The direct quote which I gave "originators cannot counter claim following receipt of an indemnity claim for the reason 'payer disputes having given authority" comes from the PDD section of the BACS website.

Already quoted. Read my post, you know the one where you put the same link after. It says clearly

If you are unable to supply a copy of the Direct Debit Instruction within 7 working days, which is likely to be the situation for Paperless Direct Debit originators, then you must refund the bank with the amount of the payment.

LSEdwards wrote: »

I am currently working for a bank and have just completed some DD training so I think I am right, but if you can find the way to make a counter claim I would be interested.

Can you give me an example of how you could have indisputable evidence of authority via a paperless method? I believe that the law would require a signature.

I work for a bank too.

The law does recognise E-signatures now. And I'm not talking a normal online direct debit mandate where you put in your account number and sortcode etc.

For my rent direct debit, as part of the signature I had to enter my driving licence number and confirm the first 3 letters of each of my names. It is recognised here and was incorporated into the Electronic Communications Act 2000 s.7:

http://www.ecb.eu/home/glossary/html/glosse.en.html#563

LSEdwards

zppp wrote: »

Already quoted. Read my post, you know the one where you put the same link after. It says clearly

If you are unable to supply a copy of the Direct Debit Instruction within 7 working days, which is likely to be the situation for Paperless Direct Debit originators, then you must refund the bank with the amount of the payment.



I work for a bank too.

The law does recognise E-signatures now. And I'm not talking a normal online direct debit mandate where you put in your account number and sortcode etc.

For my rent direct debit, as part of the signature I had to enter my driving licence number and confirm the first 3 letters of each of my names. It is recognised here and was incorporated into the Electronic Communications Act 2000 s.7:

http://www.ecb.eu/home/glossary/html/glosse.en.html#563

Interesting, thanks. Maybe someone should tell Direct Debit Limited who did our training!

zppp

On the same thing, paperless also applies over the phone, and many companies record calls, and it seems like this is also recognised by BACS:

It is recommended that you have a method of confirming the Paperless Direct Debit sign up such as voice recording. This will assist your operators when dealing with customer queries.

Not too sure what they mean here, but I suppose if it went to court, they could use telephone recordings and experts on voices etc. (To be honest this is probably going to be for mega value direct debits not the £5.99 payment for phone insurance! Not only that but companies are rubbish at keeping phone recordings!)