Change of landlord due to surrender of head lease, now what ?

RAS

bacchuscook wrote: »

Rent day is first of the month, so basically I am 2 month in arrears. They did not give us any banking details to pay the rent until yesterday !!!!

The S21 was given to us a month ago, 10 Nov, so it is within the 2 month limit. We knew they became the new landlords week1, week 2 they issued us with the S21 !!!!

Repeat after me...

RAS wrote: »

If you recieved a section 21 notice today telling you to leave by January 10, your landlord does not know the law.

He has to give 2 months notice and you are not obliged to leave until after he takes you to court is granted possession.

Since your rent day is the first of the month, any notce he gives you after November 1 does not allow him to take any legal action unitil after January 31st.

The S21 is totally invalid.

I suggest everyone in the block waits until after New Year and writes advising him of this fact.

Then it will be March 31st before he can get you out.

Has he issued an S13 notice of increased rent?

bacchuscook

They haven't issued any S13, the only things we received was a notice that they are the new landlords, an S21 dated 10 Nov asking us to leave by 10 Jan and yesterday that letter from an estate agent acting for them with the new rent rate and 2 month arrears.......

princeofpounds

Rent due does not increase when he asks for it, but only after the appropriate notices have been served, you come off your fixed period tenancy, and the process has been gone through. So they might claim you have rent overdue but that doesn't mean you are a liable for the extra amount, and if you are not liable it cannot be overdue.

If they didn't give you any method of payment, a name, and an address in england and wales then no rent is due (although it must be kept aside and paid when due, you don't get a free stay!).

Rent is due with just a name and address but if they have obstructed payment deliberately don't worry, a judge would never award a section 8 eviction on that basis and would get angry with the LL for wasting the court's time, and you could even offer to pay it in court when they are sitting there and can't avoid you handing them the cash!

As others have pointed out, the S21 appears to be invalid too, so legally they haven't even asked you to leave yet, let alone get at a point where they can seek possession (remember your tenancy ends when you surrender it or a court order is granted, no other way)

And finally remember you are protected from harrassment and illegal eviction attempts.

"Can they increase the rent without giving notice ?" No

"Can they set a new rent because we did not give copy of old tenancy agreements we had ?" No, and even if you lost your old agreements the pattern of rent paying would be taken as evidence of the contractual arrangement

"Do we need to have new contract with them so the new rent applies ?" No, as stated old contract continues until terminated properly, voluntarily or otherwise.

"About the S21, what happens after the dead line ? do we continue paying the rent until we get a court order? and if so, do we have to pay any court fees ?"

After deadline (when they finally serve a valid one) they can apply to court for possession. You are liable for rent until the date possession is awarded or date you surrender the property, whatever is earlier, once the deadline is passed. Court fees are unlikely to be due unless you actually appear in court and LL succeeds in gaining possession.

RAS

In which case, they have not got a leg to stand on.

Others who are better than me will come along but my though at the moment is that when you leave, you will be glad to get away from a batch of complete idiots like these.

Which scheme is your deposit in? How many tenants

Obviously you need to get proper face to face help with the documents in front of the advisor, but this lot are totally incompetant. As I rwead it they cannot increase the rent and cannot take legal action before the end of February. If you can all keep stum until January 2, they cannot take any legal action to get you out until April.

Ignite

Do you have home contents insurance with legal cover? If so, some companies include landlord disputes in the legal cover.

G_M

You've received good advice above, esp in relation to the invalid S21 Notice and the invalid rent increase. You therefore have time on your side.

However it is clear that the new LL wants you to leave, and will eventually succeed. So I suggest you start looking for somewhere new, and ensure you have funds saved up for the deposit/moving expenses etc.

Re your deposit, it is probobly not held in a scheme as your tenancy pre-dates the scheme introduction. Your new landlord took over responsibility for the deposit from your old LL so has to either return it when you leave or account for any deductions, but he does not have to register it with a scheme.

bacchuscook

Thank you everyone, I am looking for a new place and had no idea that there is a deposit scheme now and all that. I and all my neighbours are still in the old fashioned system, where you pay the landlord a month deposit and a month in advance and that was it, and there is a kind of personal relation between tenant and landlord. Now there is a deposit shceme and a guarantor ? and some said a credit check, very new to us....

Anyhow, will they be able to submit that S21 to the court in Feb, or will they need to issue us with a new 1, with correct date on it?
And can they tell the court that since they do not have copies of the old tenancies they just assume that it starts on X date ?

I am just trying to cover all the angles so I know when I move into legal process , I get out of it as much as I can.

We know they want us to move ASAP, and we know they will eventually succeed, we just don't want to be bullied or taken advantage of. we are all looking and as soon each of us finds a place, they will each move. But untill then, we do not want to worry about some trickery or bullying.

Thanks again everyone, most appreciated, on behalf of my neighbours and myself

RAS

bacchuscook wrote: »

Anyhow, will they be able to submit that S21 to the court in Feb, or will they need to issue us with a new 1, with correct date on it?
And can they tell the court that since they do not have copies of the old tenancies they just assume that it starts on X date ?

Based on what you have posted, they cannot take any of you to court without submitting a new S21 - well they can but they would be laughed out of court.

bacchuscook wrote: »

I am just trying to cover all the angles so I know when I move into legal process , I get out of it as much as I can.

We know they want us to move ASAP, and we know they will eventually succeed, we just don't want to be bullied or taken advantage of. we are all looking and as soon each of us finds a place, they will each move. But untill then, we do not want to worry about some trickery or bullying.

Thanks again everyone, most appreciated, on behalf of my neighbours and myself

You need to take advice but the chances are most of you will be on ASTs? If so, you need to give notice before a rent date, to leave at the end of the following month.

So today, your next rent date is 1 January. So you could issue notice any time up to 31 December (if you took it to them, 29th by post) to leave January 30.

You need to give the one month's notice, they need to give you 2 months. Unless you mutually agree to leave earlier, for a consideration?

princeofpounds

They can go all the way up to appearing in court, but if the S21 is not valid they will not win (as long as you point this out to the judge) so it will be a wasted trip and they will have no result and no costs.

Therefore, they will need to serve a new valid one before they have any chance of succeeding in court on S21 grounds.

If you end up in that situation though it's probably worth pointing it out to them in writing some time before it gets to court (after you receive the summons but a bit before the date itself) as the judge won't be happy if it is invalid, you knew it and you said nothing to waste the court's time. That would buy you another 2 months if they follow your advice and more if they went to court anyway. The judge wouldn't decide against you mind, as it is not your responsibility to evict yourself, but turning up to court with a peeved judge is just not likely to be fun.

And can they tell the court that since they do not have copies of the old tenancies they just assume that it starts on X date ?

The tenancy started when it started, as determined by the evidence presented. So if YOU can prove when the tenancy started with the tenancy agreement and/or witnesses and/or payment records then they will not be able to establish anything different.

As you are not covered by the deposit protection rules in this case I would recommend not paying the last month's rent and letting your deposit cover it. Some posters might disagree with me but if they choose to steal your deposit it will be an annoying and probably protracted fight to get it back.

BitterAndTwisted

bacchuscook wrote: »

Anyhow, will they be able to submit that S21 to the court in Feb, or will they need to issue us with a new 1, with correct date on it?

Section 21 Notices aren't submitted to the court, they are served on the tenant, so they won't be able to waive a new Section 21 when they get to court.

And can they tell the court that since they do not have copies of the old tenancies they just assume that it starts on X date ?

They can tell the court anything they darn-well please but I doubt that it will carry any weight in court whatsoever. The landlord has to absolutely serve the correct documents with the correct dates or the S21 will fail. You can see now why the new LL requested copies of the original tenancy agreements now, can't you?

If you don't leave by 10th of January the LL will then have to go to court to apply for a possession order. This could take some weeks, depending on how busy the courts are. Then the LL will discover their S21 is invalid and it would have to be re-served IF they know the correct dates so you could still be in the property by May, you never know.

You must turn up in court and you must contest the LL's S21 but do try to avoid having to give the LL the correct dates until you are compelled to.